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How do you guys (why doesn't English have a good plural you?)  handle
sentences like this:  The best is yet to come.  I'm teaching about noun
phrases; every so often I run across this type of construction.  Is it
better to say that 'best' is an adjective functioning as a noun head, or
is it better to just say 'best' is a noun here?  Or would you say
something else entirely?

 

Janet Castilleja

Heritage University

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Brad's written threats

 

Barb - cute!  You get the ATEG classroom management award!
 
Geoff



________________________________

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:53:42 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Brad's written threats
To: [log in to unmask]

If you don't stop acting like this, I'm going to have to separate you
two!  Gram, please do stop being so "snotty." Brad, please do go take a
grammar class, or else get a book and study it on your own. Eats Shoots
and Leaves is actually enjoyable to read. Play nice, please!



Barbara McLay, M.A. 
Instructor, Student Learning Services 
SVC 2124 
University of South Florida 
Tampa, FL 33620-6970 
Phone:  (813) 974-9303 
Fax: (813) 974-5089 
Webpage: www.usf.edu/reading 

 

________________________________

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gram Marian
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Brad's written threats

If I'm not mistaken, your last statement constitutes a threat. That sort
of thing is not normally tolerated on listservs. You've just been
offically upgraded from "lunatic" status to "volatile and potentially
dangerous psychopath." Congratulations.

Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> wrote: 

   %

 

(  16  )  They are amazed. They never heard of this song.

(  82  )  They are amazed. They have never heard of this song.

(   6   )  They were amazed. They never heard of this song.

(  93  )  They were amazed. They had never heard of this song.

 

(  45  )  John is upset because his application was turned down.

(  55  )  John is upset because his application has been turned down.

(  37  )  John was upset because his application was turned down.

(  64  )  John was upset because his application had been turned down.

 

Brad's conclusions:

 

1.)  Damned interesting because of the diversity of answers to
uncomplicated examples. They are short, unambiguous, and probably
constitute the simplest quiz any of us have seen since the 4th grade,
yet look at how much disagreement there is among professional
grammarians, including this morning's complaint from Herb. 

 

2.)  Look at the four sentences about John. We are 45-55 and 37-64. With
that much disagreement among professionals, is it any wonder that
students are confused? I think we need to consider carefully what this
demonstrates.

 

3.)  In the set on top, the 82 will want to explain to the 16 why the
straightforward "they never heard" is less effective than to say, "they
have never heard". I need to know, too.

 

4.)  You wouldn't let me continue long enough to get definition on what
is demonstrated next. The 82 (with the help of 11 of the 16) jumped to
the conclusion that the past perfect is the past of the present perfect.
It can be demonstrated why this is not true but we have all heard it so
often that we just feel in our bones that 'had' belongs in front of
"never heard".

 

5.)  The same can be said of John 55 going for John 64. Once they
decided that his application "has been turned down" instead of the
straightforward "was turned down", it is an easy leap to John 64 (with
the help of 9 from John 45) to say ... well, you see what it says in
John 64.

 

6.)  Convoluted theories and arcane presumptions aside, 45 and 37 have
it right: "is and was" and "was and was" don't need any help. They work
well just as they are.

 

7.)  So, 82 and 55, please tell us why you want to use the present
perfect. Then tell us why you jumped to 93 and 64. Just because it
sounds right? Stand on any street corner and listen. That's what you'll
hear. (Is that too tough? O.K., strike that last comment starting with
"Stand on any corner". I withdraw that, without prejudice I hope.)

 

8.)  Back to you. I'm going to ponder #8 for a time.

 

.brad.14feb08.

 

Hey, Gram, is this interesting and constructive enough for you? You
better duck because rocks and bottles are going to be flying, some of
them at you, just for being so snotty.

 

This list is a forum for people who are actually interested in learning
about grammar and language, not a dumping site for the ravings of an
apparent lunatic.

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