My comment was in the context of grammar and had nothing to do with the "ownership" of the English language.
   
  I recently read a translation into English that said, "the surf dragged him out into the tide (i.e., undertow, in context, but no matter), which could have been an error before translation but seems more likely a confusion as to whether given German words mean "surf" or "tide".
   
  I think such errors are more typical of someone who has not lived a lifetime with the language spoken by his parents at the dinner table, assuming approximately equal subsequent instruction.
   
  .brad.15feb08.
   
  
"STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
   
  Brad’s comment on learning about English from a non-native speaker invites the inference that English somehow belongs to a traditional native-speaking population, however that might be defined.  That population is often thought to be made up of those who’ve grown up in English-speaking countries like Britain, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada, and the US.  But then India and Pakistan have as long a history of native English speaking as Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.   The fact that English is now a global language means that its traditional homelands can no longer claim ownership.  There are world regional standard varieties of English that have all the legitimacy of American, British, etc., including Middle Eastern, various East Asian standards, and Continental European.  Speakers of these dialects have frequently grown up as native speakers, usually bilingual, of English and at least their home language, often one or two others.  What
 distinguishes them is that in their English education they have generally studied more formal traditional grammar than British or American speakers because their cultures haven’t abandoned grammar instruction as we have over the last half century.  I suspect the two Chinese professors mentioned were bilingual native speakers of English who had that educational background.    
   
  This, of course, bears only on courses about English.  As Johanna noted, linguistics is about language, not just about English, so the first language of the teacher doesn’t really matter.
   
  Herb

       
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