Does anyone have _Pause and Effect_? As I recall, that book has some material on the history of punctuating relative clauses. I agree with Bill, however: the "rules" for nineteenth century punctuation are not the same as they are today. Kathleen Ward UC Davis On Mar 25, 2008, at 11:52 AM, Spruiell, William C wrote: > Michael: > > I'm fairly sure that the use of commas to mark nonrestrictive status > wasn't established by that time -- certainly, most of the texts I've > read from the early to mid 19th century use commas in a way that would > strike modern readers as profligate (e.g. putting commas regularly > after > any subject phrase that was more than a few words long, etc.). I also > have not seen any reference to a rule connecting punctuation to > nonrestrictive status in any of the early/mid 19th-century grammars > I've > examined, although, to cough up a hackneyed line, absence of evidence > isn't evidence of absence. > > Bill Spruiell > Dept. of English > Central Michigan University > > -----Original Message----- > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Edmond Wright > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:47 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: interpretation of a relative clause > >> Michael, > > The clause in question is undoubtedly restrictive; otherwise, the > sentence > would effectively read as follows: 'a review from a man, if fair and > moderately favourable, is in all respects the best kind of review' -- > which > has the unlikely implication that Darwin was a misogynist! > > Edmond > > > > Dr. Edmond Wright > 3 Boathouse Court > Trafalgar Road > Cambridge > CB4 1DU > England > > Email: [log in to unmask] > Website: http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/elw33/ > Phone [00 44] (0)1223 350256 > > > > > > > > I was recently re-examining a short letter written by Charles > Darwin in >> 1860 to Asa Gray, since I had used an excerpt of it to discuss speech > acts >> and text type with my students. I began looking at the clause > structures >> and became puzzled by the relative clause in the passage quoted below >> which is punctuated as a non-restrictive relative. I began to wonder >> whether this clause "who is not a convert" really has a restrictive > force >> to it and has been punctuated by Darwin in a way that would be >> unconventional today. There is a clearly restrictive relative at the > end >> of the passage, so we see that Darwin does seem to make the > distinction in >> his punctuation. >> >> "What you say about my book gratifies me most deeply, and I wish I > could >> feel all was deserved by me. I quite think a review from a man, >> who is > not >> an entire convert, if fair and moderately favourable, is in all > respects >> the best kind of review.... It is the highest possible gratification > to me >> to think that you have found my book worth reading and reflection; >> for > you >> and three others I put down in my own mind as the judges whose > opinions I >> should value most of all." >> >> (1) How do you read "who is not a convert"? Can you read it >> non-restrictively? >> (2) Were punctuation rules for restrictive vs. non-restrictive > relative >> clauses established by the mid-19th century? Were/are there > differences >> between British and American punctuation of non-restrictive clauses? >> (3) Could this instance be merely a Darwinian eccentricity? >> >> I might add that I just went back to the Gutenberg Project page where > I >> originally read this letter, >> <http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext00/2llcd10.txt> and I searched >> the >> text for occurrences of "which" and found that the punctuation in > Darwin's >> correspondence is pretty regular, though there are a couple of > relative >> clauses set off by commas that I find difficult to read as >> non-restrictive. >> >> R. Michael Medley, Director >> Intensive English Program >> Professor of English >> Eastern Mennonite University, Harrisonburg, VA 22802 >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/