Linda,
   My cat-skinning sentence is better understood as "existential"--my error--similar to "It is raining" or "There is plenty of food." We seem to have a resistance to "be" as intransitive. "More than one good way to skin a cat exists" would be an alternative.
   I think if I were trying to improve writing in a one-day workshop, wordiness is something I would target. But we do have to be careful about it. There are very good functional reasons for extraposition. And I would caution against revising sentences outside the context of their place in a text and outside the discourse context. Robert's points seem largely on target.
   The larger point I was hoping to make is that we we need a functional understanding of language, not just a formal one. We also need goals that are larger than reducing wordiness. Less wordy texts are often clearer because we have (to quote the late great Don Murray) "gotten the static out". But that raises clarity to a goal and makes cutting words a means and not an end.
   The operative question might be "What knowledge about language helps a writer accomplish his or her own goals." We have to yank the attention away from "what forms are correct."

Craig

Linda Comerford wrote:

Craig, Regarding one of my pet peeves, "it" and "there" expletives, I'm wondering if you would accept "Loving you is easy" as a more streamlined way of saying, "It is easy to love you"? I'm fine with your cat-skinning "there" expletive. As I believe you can see from my posts, I try to give those in my one-day classes information to help them make informed decisions about their writing afterwards. If I received 50 cents every time I see folks write sentences like, "There are many reasons why the cafeteria should remain open beyond 2:00," in my 20+ year career, I'd be rich! To me, such sentences are the equivalent of starting a sentence in a presentation with "uh" or "um." My theory about expletives is that they start so many sentences because their writers often don't know where they want their sentences to go. Writing is discovery, so those lead-in words give them time to get to their point. But if they keep the expletive, they often delay the subject until the middle of the sentence where their readers are more likely to miss it. Instead, I offer them the option to start with the subject as in this re-write: "The cafeteria should remain open beyond 2:00 for many reasons." Writers and readers alike appreciate such streamlined clarity. That's when my "save 50 cents a word" editorial tip comes into play. My participants not only resonate to it but remember it. I've encountered folks from one of my classes over 10 years ago tell me they draft without regard to wordiness but then revise with that 50-cent idea in mind. Maybe with inflation I should up it to $1.00.... Linda Linda Comerford 317.786.6404 [log in to unmask] www.comerfordconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"

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