Should we say that the subjunctive is disappearing or that it is changing. It seems to me that "was" is not being used in its usual meaning of past tense in these statements, so it still might be considered subjunctive, just not the old form. Edith Wollin -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Veit, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:25 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Subjunctive That fact that half of a group of educated speakers did not use the subjunctive to describe a hypothetical situation is more evidence suggesting that the subjunctive is disappearing from our language. Dick Veit ________________________________ Richard Veit Department of English University of North Carolina Wilmington -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda Di Desidero Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:36 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Subjunctive At a recent (large) faculty meeting, one of the administrators ran a 'warm-up' activity. The idea was for faculty members to stand up, introduce themselves, and talk about what they would be doing on a Saturday morning if they were not attending this meeting. I kept track: At least half of the speakers said "If I was not here" while almost half said "If I were not here." I was surprised, given that this was an educated group of people and the speaking occasion was not all that informal. Oh, the things we find to interest ourselves! Linda ----------------------------------------------------- Linda Di Desidero, Ph.D. Associate Professor Assistant Academic Director of Writing Communication, Arts, and Humanities University of Maryland University College 3501 University Boulevard East Adelphi, MD 20783-8083 (240) 582-2830 (240) 582-2993 (fax) -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathleen M. Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:47 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Subjunctive Well, it does, of course (she should have said "If Obama were a white man") but the subjunctive has been disappearing from English for centuries now. I think it has become pretty rare in speech. (I take it that this was an interview quotation?) Kathleen Ward UC Davis On Mar 12, 2008, at 9:30 AM, DD Farms wrote: > DD: Am I a bit confused? Consider the quote from Geraldine Ferraro, > [NYT 12 Mar 08, Maureen Dowd.] "If Obama was a white man, he would not > be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color), he would > not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. > And the country is caught up in the concept." I thought High Standard > English required the use of the subjunctive in stating a condition > contrary to fact. > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/