Received: from leordinateur ([68.202.149.170]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com
with ESMTP
id <20080408201616.BZKS2167.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@leordinateur>
for <[log in to unmask]>; Tue, 8 Apr 2008 20:16:16 +0000
From: "Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "'Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar'" <[log in to unmask]>
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: ATEG Digest - 6 Apr 2008 to 7 Apr 2008 (#2008-84)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:14:32 -0400
Message-ID: <004901c899b5$28bd6410$6501a8c0@leordinateur>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
Thread-Index: AciZLSTMM4/JGgp7SYykgoYokfxSEgAU5nPg
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
I concur with Greenbaum. The past perfect describes an action completed in
the past before some other past action. I am, not quoting anyone but
myself; however, I was raised by grammatically ept parents and found Curme
and Jespersen much to my taste.
Scott
Make that two of 312.
Next?
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 6 Apr 2008 to 7 Apr 2008 (#2008-84)
There are 4 messages totalling 605 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Greenbaum & the Past Perfect (2)
2. ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82) (2)
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 04:41:43 -0700
From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Greenbaum & the Past Perfect
--0-1457661015-1207568503=:53644
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
It's not easy to tell, amidst all the flying sticks and stones and puppy dog
bones, but Karl implies that he subscribes to the statement made by Sidney
Greenbaum. He agrees with it, and that's fine, but his opinion is only one
among the 312 grammarians on the listserv. How say the others?
If you are one of the other 311 and have, or are, mugged up on the past
perfect, let us hear from you. Does Greenbaum say it in a way with which you
agree? Do you buy it, all of it, just the way he says it?
Go off-line, if you like, and send it to [log in to unmask] I'll report
only the numbers, pro and con. Just say, "agree" or "don't agree". The
Greenbaum quote is reprinted below, verbatim.
.brad.07apr08.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Those who pretend that they know better than everyone who has ever
published on the subject and yet offer nothing more than misplaced sarcasm
to buttress their position have even more work cut out for themselves.
A remark from Richard Dawkins (made in a somewhat different context) leaps
to mind: "It is, of course, entirely legitimate to question conventional
wisdom in fields that you have bothered to mug up first. That is what
Einstein did, and Galileo, and Darwin. But our hundred million are another
matter. They are contradicting ... vast fields of learning in which their
own knowledge and reading is indistinguishable from zero."
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Oxford English Grammar, by Sidney Greenbaum, c.1996, page 272.
5.28 Past Perfect
The past perfect (or pluperfect) is a combination of the past tense of the
verb have (had or the contracted form 'd) with the perfect participle. It is
used to refer to a situation in the past that came before another situation
in the past. The past perfect represents either the past of the simple past
or the past of the present perfect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
Total Access, No Cost.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--0-1457661015-1207568503=:53644
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<DIV>It's not easy to tell, amidst all the flying sticks and stones and
puppy dog bones, but Karl implies that he subscribes to the
statement made by Sidney Greenbaum. He agrees with it, and that's fine, but
his opinion is only one among the 312 grammarians on the listserv.
How say the others?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are one of the
other 311 and have, or <EM>are</EM>, mugged up on the past
perfect, let us hear from you. Does Greenbaum say it in a way with which you
agree? Do you buy it, all of it, just the way he says it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go off-line, if you like, and send it to <A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>. I'll
report only the numbers, pro and con. Just say, "agree" or "don't agree".
The Greenbaum quote is reprinted below, verbatim.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>.brad.07apr08.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><FONT face=verdana color=#000000
size=2><STRONG>~~~~~~~~~~~~</STRONG></FONT></SPAN> <BR><BR><B><I>Karl
Hagen <[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Those who pretend that they know better than everyone who has ever
published on the subject and yet offer nothing more than misplaced sarcasm
to buttress their position have even more work cut out for
themselves.<BR><BR>A remark from Richard Dawkins (made in a somewhat
different context) leaps to mind: "It is, of course, entirely legitimate to
question conventional wisdom in fields that you have bothered to mug up
first. That is what Einstein did, and Galileo, and Darwin. But our hundred
million are another matter. They are contradicting ... vast fields of
learning in which their own knowledge and reading is indistinguishable
from zero."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=verdana><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><FONT face=verdana color=#000000
size=2><STRONG>~~~~~~~~~~~~</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#000000 size=2><STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',
'sans-serif'"></SPAN></STRONG></FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><FONT face=Verdana
color=#000000 size=2><STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',
'sans-serif'"><FONT face=arial color=#000000
size=2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',
'sans-serif'"><FONT face=arial color=#000000 size=2><STRONG>The Oxford
English Grammar, by Sidney Greenbaum, c.1996, page
272.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR:
#1f497d;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><STRONG><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><STRONG><FONT
face=verdana color=#c00000 size=2>5.28 Past
Perfect</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><STRONG><FONT
face=verdana color=#c00000 size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri',
'sans-serif'"><STRONG><FONT face=verdana color=#c00000 size=2>The past
perfect (or pluperfect) is a combination of the past tense of the verb
<EM>have</EM> (<EM>had</EM> or the contracted form <EM>'d</EM>) with the
perfect participle. It is used to refer to a situation in the past that came
before another situation in the past. The past perfect represents either the
past of the simple past or the past of the present perfect.
</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><STRONG><FONT face=verdana
color=#c00000></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><STRONG><FONT
color=#000000 size=2> <DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><FONT face=verdana color=#000000
size=2><STRONG>~~~~~~~~~~~~</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></FONT></STRONG></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'"><STRONG><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV><p> 
<hr size=1>You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you <a
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbu
ster/text5.com">one month of Blockbuster Total Access</a>, No Cost.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--0-1457661015-1207568503=:53644--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 14:00:29 -0400
From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82)
I suspect this is one of those situations in which the company *would*
pay attention if some of the testees used the problems with the test to
support a claim of (abstract) injury, and filed a class-action suit.
Bill Spruiell
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82)
A number of us who took the required California test for teachers met
during
the break, discussed a number of questions to which no correct answer
was
given and a number for which no answer was correct. We exchanged
addresses,
wrote up a letter explaining the myriad faults of the test, and sent it
to
the California State board of education (this was two decades after Max
Rafferty), who replied with a form letter saying that it was not board
policy to discuss test questions and that our discussion among ourselves
of
the test questions was totally unprofessional and could lead to our
sanction
by the board. Almost unanimously, we told them that they were the ones
who
were totally unprofessional and that we would request the NEA to
sanction
them. Nothing ever happened, and no one was surprised.
Scott Catledge
I consider some of the questions to be totally incorrect or
inappropriate
and will gladly send a letter to whomever. I do not expect any
meaningful
response.
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest
system
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82)
There are 2 messages totalling 254 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. A Test of Essential Academic Skills
2. Definition of Term
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:33:08 -0400
From: Wanda Van Goor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills
----------MB_8CA655A3F6F626C_1270_5D4F_webmail-mf14.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
I hope NCTE will see fit to respond to the test.?=20
?
I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign a letter sent by as
many
ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite than our private
comments!?
Keep us posted.
-----Original Message-----
From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:47 pm
Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills
ATEG being affiliated with NCTE, wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to
issue a
statement on this execrable test and make it known to both the state of
Idaho and ATI? I don't know if such statements would have to be "vetted"
by
any higher-up NCTE committees or officers.?
?
I found the home page for ATI:?
?
http://www.atitesting.com/?
?
Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least
inform
them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and
an
e-mail address for comments.?
?
Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D.?
Associate Professor, Linguistics?
Linguistics Minor Advisor?
English Dept.?
Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo?
San Luis Obispo, CA 93407?
Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184?
Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596?
Dept. fax: 805-756-6374?
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba?
?
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:?
? http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html?
and select "Join or leave the list"?
?
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/?
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
----------MB_8CA655A3F6F626C_1270_5D4F_webmail-mf14.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii"
<div>I hope NCTE will see fit to respon<SPAN contentEditable=3Dfalse
style=3D"DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN>d to the test. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign a letter sent by
as
many ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite than our private
comments! Keep us posted.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]><br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:47 pm<br>
Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills<br>
<br>
<div id=3DAOLMsgPart_0_cb643a16-b4bd-4add-900b-ac61dd7808b4
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,
Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">ATEG being affiliated with NCTE,
wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to issue a statement on this execrable
test
and make it known to both the state of Idaho and ATI? I don't know if
such
statements would have to be "vetted" by any higher-up NCTE committees or
officers. <br>
<br>
I found the home page for ATI: <br>
<br>
<A>http://www.atitesting.com/</A> <br>
<br>
Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least
inform
them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and
an
e-mail address for comments. <br>
<br>
Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D. <br>
Associate Professor, Linguistics <br>
Linguistics Minor Advisor <br>
English Dept. <br>
Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo <br>
San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 <br>
Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184 <br>
Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596 <br>
Dept. fax: 805-756-6374 <br>
E-mail: <A>[log in to unmask]</A> <br>
URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba <br>
<br>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at: <br>
<A>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> <br>
and select "Join or leave the list" <br>
<br>
Visit ATEG's web site at <A>http://ateg.org/</A> <br>
</div>
<div id=3D'u8CA655A3EB0A4BC-1270-2EFC' class=3D'aol_ad_footer'><FONT
style=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR
style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get the <A
title=3D"http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=3Dmpqmap00030000000003"
href=3D"http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=3Dmpqmap00030000000003"
target=3D"_blank">MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions &
More!</FONT> </div>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
----------MB_8CA655A3F6F626C_1270_5D4F_webmail-mf14.sysops.aol.com--
-----------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 16:42:50 -0700
From: Carol Morrison <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Definition of Term
--0-797841336-1207438970=3D:65724
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Does anyone happen to know what the term "pretzel logic" means? I just
came
across it in a book I'm reading and can't find a definition.
Thank you!
Carol Morrison
Wanda Van Goor <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I hope NCTE will see fit to respond to the test. =20
=20
I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign a letter sent by as
many
ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite than our private
comments!
Keep us posted.
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:47 pm
Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills
ATEG being affiliated with NCTE, wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to
issue
a statement on this execrable test and make it known to both the state
of
Idaho and ATI? I don't know if such statements would have to be "vetted"
by
any higher-up NCTE committees or officers.=20
=20
I found the home page for ATI:=20
=20
http://www.atitesting.com/=20
=20
Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least
inform
them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and
an
e-mail address for comments.=20
=20
Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D.=20
Associate Professor, Linguistics=20
Linguistics Minor Advisor=20
English Dept.=20
Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo=20
San Luis Obispo, CA 93407=20
Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184=20
Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596=20
Dept. fax: 805-756-6374=20
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba=20
=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:=20
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html=20
and select "Join or leave the list"=20
=20
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/=20
=20
---------------------------------
Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
leave
the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/=20
=20
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
Total Access, No Cost.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--0-797841336-1207438970=3D:65724
Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<div>Does anyone happen to know what the term "pretzel logic" means? I
just
came across it in a book I'm reading and can't find a definition.</div>
<div>Thank you!</div> <div>Carol Morrison<BR><BR><B><I>Wanda Van Goor
<[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE =
class=3Dreplbq
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">
<DIV>I hope NCTE will see fit to respon<SPAN contentEditable=3Dfalse
style=3D"DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN>d to the test. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign
a
letter sent by as many ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite
than
our private comments! Keep us posted.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Johanna Rubba
<[log in to unmask]><BR>To: [log in to unmask]<BR>Sent: Fri,
4
Apr 2008 5:47 pm<BR>Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic
Skills<BR><BR>
<DIV
id=3DAOLMsgPart_0_cb643a16-b4bd-4add-900b-ac61dd7808b4 =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:
12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,
Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">ATEG being affiliated with NCTE,
wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to issue a statement on this execrable
test
and make it known to both the state of Idaho and ATI? I don't know if
such
statements would have to be "vetted" by any higher-up NCTE committees or
officers. <BR> <BR>I found the home page for
ATI: <BR> <BR><A>http://www.atitesting.com/</A> <BR> 
;<BR
>Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least
inform
them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and
an
e-mail address for comments. <BR> <BR>Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph.
D. <BR>Associate Professor, Linguistics <BR>Linguistics Minor
Advisor <BR>English Dept. <BR>Cal Poly State University San
Luis
Obispo <BR>San Luis Obispo, CA
93407 <BR>Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184 <BR>Dept. tel.:
805-756-2596 <BR>Dept. fax: 805-756-6374 <BR>E-mail:
<A>[log in to unmask]</A> <BR>URL:
cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba <BR> <BR>To join or leave this
LISTSERV
list, please visit the list's web interface at: <BR>
<A>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> <BR>and select
"Join or leave the list" <BR> <BR>Visit ATEG's web site at
<A>http://ateg.org/</A> <BR></DIV> <DIV class=3Daol_ad_footer
id=3Du8CA655A3EB0A4BC-1270-2EFC><FONT style=3D"FONT: 10pt ARIAL, =
SAN-SERIF;
COLOR: black"> <HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A
title=3Dhttp://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=3Dmpqmap00030000000003
href=3D"http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=3Dmpqmap00030000000003"
target=3D_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions &
More!</FONT> </DIV>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the
list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and
select "Join or leave the list" <div>Visit ATEG's web site at
http://ateg.org/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
<hr size=3D1>You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you <a
href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/=
blo
ckbu
ster/text5.com">one month of Blockbuster Total Access</a>, No Cost.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--0-797841336-1207438970=3D:65724--
-----------------------------
End of ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82)
********************************************************
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:16:01 -0700
From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82)
Scott, perhaps the fact that you were test-takers rather than
independent commentators raised their hackles. Not that I think a
letter from independent experts would have much more effect.
Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics
Linguistics Minor Advisor
English Department
California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
Tel.: 805.756.2184
Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596
Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374
URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:21:39 -0700
From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Greenbaum & the Past Perfect
Works such as Greenbaum et al., Huddleston and Pullum and the Longman
Grammar aren't opinions based on one person's experience of English.
They are based on observation of large amounts of data -- more than
any single subscriber to this list is likely to be able to sample.
This is why we appeal to them as authorities on English usage.
This doesn't mean their works are dogma -- their generalizations can
be challenged -- but I wouldn't do so without the weight of a large
amount of data behind me.
Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics
Linguistics Minor Advisor
English Department
California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
Tel.: 805.756.2184
Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596
Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374
URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
End of ATEG Digest - 6 Apr 2008 to 7 Apr 2008 (#2008-84)
********************************************************
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/