What I really want to know, if you really want to know, Mark, is whether experienced grammarians think the past perfect is the past of the present perfect.
Earlier, I asked the question directly and they balked, one way or another, so now I am at the back door, still not having an answer to a simple but important question, particularly since it relates to teaching English grammar: should students of English be taught that the past perfect is the past of the present perfect, as it is clearly stated in Greenbaum's definition.
I don't want to know what the most-aggressive writers think as much as I want 312 different opinions from 312 different people with similar but different points of view. That's why I asked that they respond to [log in to unmask] so they will not be deterred from giving an honest, uninfluenced opinion. There are at least two on the listserv who, however unwittingly, stifle free expression.
I fail to understand why my interest should strike you as trollish (or worse at the hands of others). If you need more possible answers to the simple "agree" or disagree", please utilize "don't know", or "can't decide", or even "never really thought about it". Surely all of the sincere people on this listserv cannot be without an opinion on such an important English grammatical device as the past perfect.
I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I hope this helps.
.sincerely.brad.09apr08.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MC Johnstone <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> *Just say, "agree" or "don't agree".*
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *I am not able to detect your answer to the question.*
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *.brad.09apr08. *
Am I the only person who finds this style of "discussion" disagreeable?
How can troll posts be recognised?
*
*No Imagination* - Most are frighteningly obvious; sexist comments
on nurses' groups, blasphemy on religious groups .. I kid you not.
*
*Pedantic in the Extreme* - Many trolls' preparation is so
thorough, that while they waste time, they appear so ludicrous
from the start that they elicit sympathetic mail - the danger is
that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.
*
*False Identity* - Because they are cowards, trolls virtually
never write over their own name, and often reveal their trolliness
(and lack of imagination) in the chosen ID. As so many folk these
days use false ID, this is not a strong indicator on its own!
*
*Crossposting* - Any post that is crossposted to several groups
should be viewed as suspicious, particularly if unrelated or of
opposing perspective. Why would someone do that?
*
*Off-topic posting* - Often genuine errors, but, if from an
'outsider' they deserve matter-of-fact response; if genuine, a
brief apposite response is simply netiquette; if it's a troll
post, you have denied it its reward.
*
*Repetition* of a question or statement is either a troll - or a
pedant; either way, treatment as a troll is effective.
*
*Missing The Point* - Trolls rarely answer a direct question -
they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a
fine line in missing the point.
*
*Thick or Sad* - Trolls are usually sad, lonely folk, with few
social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider
intelligent conversation. However, they frequently have an
obsession with their IQ and feel the need to tell everyone. This
is so frequent, that it is diagnostic! Somewhere on the web there
must be an *Intelligence Test for Trolls*
- rigged to always say
"above 150"
http://www.flayme.com/troll/
Now back to lurkdom. I enjoy this list immensely, and while my loss
would not be noticed, this kind of poster does drive people away and
driving people away is usually not the purpose of discussion boards.
Mark Johnstone
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
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