I suspect this is one of those situations in which the company *would* pay attention if some of the testees used the problems with the test to support a claim of (abstract) injury, and filed a class-action suit. Bill Spruiell -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:47 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82) A number of us who took the required California test for teachers met during the break, discussed a number of questions to which no correct answer was given and a number for which no answer was correct. We exchanged addresses, wrote up a letter explaining the myriad faults of the test, and sent it to the California State board of education (this was two decades after Max Rafferty), who replied with a form letter saying that it was not board policy to discuss test questions and that our discussion among ourselves of the test questions was totally unprofessional and could lead to our sanction by the board. Almost unanimously, we told them that they were the ones who were totally unprofessional and that we would request the NEA to sanction them. Nothing ever happened, and no one was surprised. Scott Catledge I consider some of the questions to be totally incorrect or inappropriate and will gladly send a letter to whomever. I do not expect any meaningful response. -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82) There are 2 messages totalling 254 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. A Test of Essential Academic Skills 2. Definition of Term To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:33:08 -0400 From: Wanda Van Goor <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills ----------MB_8CA655A3F6F626C_1270_5D4F_webmail-mf14.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I hope NCTE will see fit to respond to the test.? ? I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign a letter sent by as many ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite than our private comments!? Keep us posted. -----Original Message----- From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:47 pm Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills ATEG being affiliated with NCTE, wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to issue a statement on this execrable test and make it known to both the state of Idaho and ATI? I don't know if such statements would have to be "vetted" by any higher-up NCTE committees or officers.? ? I found the home page for ATI:? ? http://www.atitesting.com/? ? Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least inform them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and an e-mail address for comments.? ? Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D.? Associate Professor, Linguistics? Linguistics Minor Advisor? English Dept.? Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo? San Luis Obispo, CA 93407? Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184? Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596? Dept. fax: 805-756-6374? E-mail: [log in to unmask] URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba? ? To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:? ? http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html? and select "Join or leave the list"? ? Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/? To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ----------MB_8CA655A3F6F626C_1270_5D4F_webmail-mf14.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <div>I hope NCTE will see fit to respon<SPAN contentEditable=false style="DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN>d to the test. </div> <div> </div> <div>I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign a letter sent by as many ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite than our private comments! Keep us posted.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]><br> To: [log in to unmask]<br> Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:47 pm<br> Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills<br> <br> <div id=AOLMsgPart_0_cb643a16-b4bd-4add-900b-ac61dd7808b4 style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">ATEG being affiliated with NCTE, wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to issue a statement on this execrable test and make it known to both the state of Idaho and ATI? I don't know if such statements would have to be "vetted" by any higher-up NCTE committees or officers. <br> <br> I found the home page for ATI: <br> <br> <A>http://www.atitesting.com/</A> <br> <br> Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least inform them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and an e-mail address for comments. <br> <br> Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D. <br> Associate Professor, Linguistics <br> Linguistics Minor Advisor <br> English Dept. <br> Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo <br> San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 <br> Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184 <br> Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596 <br> Dept. fax: 805-756-6374 <br> E-mail: <A>[log in to unmask]</A> <br> URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba <br> <br> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <br> <A>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> <br> and select "Join or leave the list" <br> <br> Visit ATEG's web site at <A>http://ateg.org/</A> <br> </div> <div id='u8CA655A3EB0A4BC-1270-2EFC' class='aol_ad_footer'><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get the <A title="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target="_blank">MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </div> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ----------MB_8CA655A3F6F626C_1270_5D4F_webmail-mf14.sysops.aol.com-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 16:42:50 -0700 From: Carol Morrison <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Definition of Term --0-797841336-1207438970=:65724 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone happen to know what the term "pretzel logic" means? I just came across it in a book I'm reading and can't find a definition. Thank you! Carol Morrison Wanda Van Goor <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I hope NCTE will see fit to respond to the test. I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign a letter sent by as many ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite than our private comments! Keep us posted. -----Original Message----- From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:47 pm Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills ATEG being affiliated with NCTE, wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to issue a statement on this execrable test and make it known to both the state of Idaho and ATI? I don't know if such statements would have to be "vetted" by any higher-up NCTE committees or officers. I found the home page for ATI: http://www.atitesting.com/ Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least inform them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and an e-mail address for comments. Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D. Associate Professor, Linguistics Linguistics Minor Advisor English Dept. Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184 Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596 Dept. fax: 805-756-6374 E-mail: [log in to unmask] URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --------------------------------- Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --0-797841336-1207438970=:65724 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <div>Does anyone happen to know what the term "pretzel logic" means? I just came across it in a book I'm reading and can't find a definition.</div> <div>Thank you!</div> <div>Carol Morrison<BR><BR><B><I>Wanda Van Goor <[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <DIV>I hope NCTE will see fit to respon<SPAN contentEditable=false style="DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN>d to the test. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm retired, but would probably be happy to sign a letter sent by as many ATEGers as possible...a letter a bit more polite than our private comments! Keep us posted.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]><BR>To: [log in to unmask]<BR>Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:47 pm<BR>Subject: Re: A Test of Essential Academic Skills<BR><BR> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_cb643a16-b4bd-4add-900b-ac61dd7808b4 style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">ATEG being affiliated with NCTE, wouldn't be appropriate for ATEG to issue a statement on this execrable test and make it known to both the state of Idaho and ATI? I don't know if such statements would have to be "vetted" by any higher-up NCTE committees or officers. <BR> <BR>I found the home page for ATI: <BR> <BR><A>http://www.atitesting.com/</A> <BR>  ;<BR >Perhaps a letter signed by a number of us "experts" would at least inform them of the situation. Their contact info gives both a snail address and an e-mail address for comments. <BR> <BR>Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D. <BR>Associate Professor, Linguistics <BR>Linguistics Minor Advisor <BR>English Dept. <BR>Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo <BR>San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 <BR>Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184 <BR>Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596 <BR>Dept. fax: 805-756-6374 <BR>E-mail: <A>[log in to unmask]</A> <BR>URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba <BR> <BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <BR> <A>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> <BR>and select "Join or leave the list" <BR> <BR>Visit ATEG's web site at <A>http://ateg.org/</A> <BR></DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA655A3EB0A4BC-1270-2EFC><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </DIV>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" <div>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>  <hr size=1>You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blo ckbu ster/text5.com">one month of Blockbuster Total Access</a>, No Cost. To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --0-797841336-1207438970=:65724-- ------------------------------ End of ATEG Digest - 4 Apr 2008 to 5 Apr 2008 (#2008-82) ******************************************************** To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/