Translate the French (s'il vous plait) and what do you get?
Jane Saral

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Nancy Tuten <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>  I thought so, too, Paul—but is "you" the subject of the clause "if you
> please," where "you" is the subject of the verb "please" (meaning, in this
> case, "if you wish/desire") OR is "you" the subject of the passive
> construction "if you are pleased [to respond]" OR is "pleased" a
> subject-complement adjective describing "you"? In all three cases, "you" is
> the subject, but the whole question led me to think about the rest of the
> constructions.
>
>
>
> These are the sentences that make class discussions fun and informative.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nancy L. Tuten, PhD
>
> Professor of English
>
> Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program
>
> Columbia College
>
> Columbia, South Carolina
>
> [log in to unmask]
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> 803-786-3706
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>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Paul E. Doniger
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:25 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: RSVP
>
>
>
> I understand that the 'you' may be considered an object, but it seems more
> to me like the subject of an eliptical construction: "If you please to do
> (think?) so." Is there any evidence for something like this being the case?
>
>
>
> Paul D.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:24:29 PM
> Subject: Re: RSVP
>
> This strikes me as one of those fossilized forms, like "methinks" or
> "meseems," that now seem archaic.  "If you please," while not so archaic,
> has a very formal feel to it.  All the OED says of it is
>
>
>
>  *b.* To be pleased, to like; to have the will or desire; to have the
> inclination or disposition; to think proper; to choose. Chiefly *Sc.*in
> earlier use.
>   Equivalent in sense to the passive in sense 4b.
>   Chiefly used in constructions where the desirable action or state is
> implied or understood; now rarely with this expressed by an infinitive
> clause.
>
>
>
> I don't think the "you" is like the "me," though, an archaic preverbal
> indirect object.  Rather, as the OED indicates, the active has taken on the
> meaning of the passive.
>
>
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Scott
> *Sent:* 2008-04-27 10:24
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* RSVP
>
>
>
> Enclosed is a comment extracted from another list.  I would appreciate the
> comments of other grammarians on the two questions posed.
>
>
>
> 1.  (But do you really think "you" in phrases like "if you please" can be
> called a direct object?  This construction is at least 500 years old.
>
> 2.  (Would "if you like" be the same?)
>
>
>
> Scott Catledge
>
> Professor Emeritus
>
> history & languages
>
>
>
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