Translate the French (s'il vous plait) and what do you get? Jane Saral On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Nancy Tuten <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I thought so, too, Paul—but is "you" the subject of the clause "if you > please," where "you" is the subject of the verb "please" (meaning, in this > case, "if you wish/desire") OR is "you" the subject of the passive > construction "if you are pleased [to respond]" OR is "pleased" a > subject-complement adjective describing "you"? In all three cases, "you" is > the subject, but the whole question led me to think about the rest of the > constructions. > > > > These are the sentences that make class discussions fun and informative. > > > > > > Nancy L. Tuten, PhD > > Professor of English > > Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program > > Columbia College > > Columbia, South Carolina > > [log in to unmask] > > 803-786-3706 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto: > [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Paul E. Doniger > *Sent:* Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:25 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: RSVP > > > > I understand that the 'you' may be considered an object, but it seems more > to me like the subject of an eliptical construction: "If you please to do > (think?) so." Is there any evidence for something like this being the case? > > > > Paul D. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:24:29 PM > Subject: Re: RSVP > > This strikes me as one of those fossilized forms, like "methinks" or > "meseems," that now seem archaic. "If you please," while not so archaic, > has a very formal feel to it. All the OED says of it is > > > > *b.* To be pleased, to like; to have the will or desire; to have the > inclination or disposition; to think proper; to choose. Chiefly *Sc.*in > earlier use. > Equivalent in sense to the passive in sense 4b. > Chiefly used in constructions where the desirable action or state is > implied or understood; now rarely with this expressed by an infinitive > clause. > > > > I don't think the "you" is like the "me," though, an archaic preverbal > indirect object. Rather, as the OED indicates, the active has taken on the > meaning of the passive. > > > > Herb > > > > *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto: > [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Scott > *Sent:* 2008-04-27 10:24 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* RSVP > > > > Enclosed is a comment extracted from another list. I would appreciate the > comments of other grammarians on the two questions posed. > > > > 1. (But do you really think "you" in phrases like "if you please" can be > called a direct object? This construction is at least 500 years old. > > 2. (Would "if you like" be the same?) > > > > Scott Catledge > > Professor Emeritus > > history & languages > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV > list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave > the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/