Scott: "Had went" is a regional dialect form, I suspect -- I had not encountered it before I moved to Michigan, but I encounter it *very* frequently here. Of course, "have went" and "has went" are also part of the local dialect. Since it's so common here, and since Michiganders tend to believe that whatever they speak *must* by definition be standard English, I have a certain amount of trouble convincing them that outside readers will indeed notice it and think it's a big deal. Not linguistically insecure, your average Michigander. In Florida, I suspect you'd find it along the southwestern coast, which has been heavily colonized by Michigan emigrants. Unless things have changed sharply in the last twenty years (I lived in Florida for awhile), the northeastern coast tends to be a mixture of Southern dialects and (at least further south, around Daytona) New Jerseyite. I still remember trying to figure out what a "garridge" was. Bill Spruiell -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:33 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: HAD WENT: ATEG Digest - 7 Apr 2008 to 8 Apr 2008 (#2008-85) To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:14:32 -0400 From: Scott <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 6 Apr 2008 to 7 Apr 2008 (#2008-84) I must have been lucky teaching. I've taught all-Caucasian classes in small towns in Florida; heavily African-American center-city classes in Jacksonville, FL; overwhelming Hispanic classes in Los Angeles, I have not encountered 'had went' ('done went', yes--but never forms with 'had' + a past tense that was not identical to a past participle. The 'done went' was from a single student, although 'done' as an auxiliary verb was not uncommon in speech; e.g, 'done gone.' Nevertheless, no one in my classes (high school or junior high) ever wrote using 'done' as an auxiliary or using 'had' + a past tense. The only explanation that I can see for the mistakes that you report is a bad hangover from the 60's when many universities began to teach the viewpoint that all levels of English usage are of equal value: shades of Joos! I have also read about--but never experienced--the snide remarks that "so 'n' so is acting White when the person criticized is using correct English. Scott (I just got through explaining to a class for the fourth time that "had went" won't go over well in formal writing), but in the normal course of things, grammars document the judgments, or give weight to one group's judgments over those of other groups, rather than institute the judgments in the first place (I'm hedging a bit because of Lowth and his ilk).=20 Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University ******************************************************** To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/