Herb,

 

The following would seem to be an exception to the claim that the actor of a nonfinite verb is never nominative:

 

            Were she to leave, everyone would panic.

 

Dick

 

________________________________

 

Richard Veit

Department of English

University of North Carolina Wilmington

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:38 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Odd sentence

 

I think an argument for that the subjunctive with "suggest" is a finite

clause is that it takes a nominative subject pronoun.  Nonfinite clauses

take objective case or, with -ing forms, objective or genitive.

 

I suggest that she leave earlier.

I encouraged her to leave earlier.

I was surprised at her/him/his leaving early.

 

Herb

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar

[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C

Sent: 2008-04-09 18:56

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Odd sentence

 

I'd treat that as a subjunctive -- there's the "If I were president"

type, and the "I suggested she be hired" type, and this looks like a

version of the latter, albeit in a nominal that-clause. That's actually

dodging your question a bit, though. For the first type of subjunctive,

one can argue for finiteness on the basis of the fact that the

subjunctive form can occur before the verb, and that kind of "inversion"

is characteristic of finite forms (but auxiliaries, in non-subjunctive

examples). Instead of "If I were president..." one can opt for the

hyperformal "Were I president..." variant.

 

I can't think of anything similar one can do with the suggest-type

subjunctive that would prove it's finite, unless you're willing to

accept the claim that its presence in a nominal that-clause is

sufficient proof of finiteness. That feels a bit circular, somehow -- it

rests on the assumption that a non-finite that-clause is impossible,

when someone could simply argue that this is an example of just such a

thing.

 

Bill Spruiell

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar

[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Castilleja, Janet

Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:49 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Odd sentence

 

Hi

 

What do you folks make of this sentence?  Is the clause that begins

'that the Greek colonies..." finite or non-finite?  I think it is

non-finite, but I'm wavering a little.

 

 

When they reached the coast of Asia   Minor, they insisted that the

Greek colonies of Lydia recognize the Persian Kings as their over- Lords

and pay them a stipulated tax.

 

Thanks

 

Janet Castilleja

Heritage University

 

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