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From: "Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "'Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar'" <[log in to unmask]>
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: ATEG Digest - 30 May 2008 to 31 May 2008 (#2008-121)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:33:44 -0400
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Adjectively speaking, you might need to qualify "since we don't add -ly to
adjectives starting with the prefix a-." All a- prefixes? just the alpha
privative? We need to be more specific.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 30 May 2008 to 31 May 2008 (#2008-121)
There are 13 messages totalling 5720 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Lonely Morphology (10)
2. ATEG Summer Conference
3. Lonely Morphology and the right etymology source (2)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 07:24:26 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
DD's right that it goes back farther. We do tend to talk about Old English=
as if it was some sort of starting point when in fact it was merely the in=
sular development of several dialects of West Germanic, and there was, of c=
ourse, strong Old Norse influence, especially in the Danelaw, the north of =
England, after 800AD. But the Latin reference probably is not related, exc=
ept in the sense that both Latin and Germanic were inflected languages with=
rich derivational morphology.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: 2008-05-30 21:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
At 06:18 30/05/2008, Linda Di Desidero wrote:
>I imagine that -ly ending for modifiers derives from the Germanic
>--lich or the English --like. I'll bet that Herb or Bill can provide
>a more detailed answer.
DD: I suspect it goes back a bit further than that. Consider Latin,
where the adjective latina has the adverb, latine. As in English, not
across the board, though. American heritage Dictionary suggests,
"[Middle English -li, from Old English -l c (influenced by Old Norse
-ligr); see l k- in Indo-European roots.] " Where the blank is an i
with a macron.
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:38:51 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and OED concu=
rs, that the word was introduced by American philologist Maurice Bloomfield=
in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source are from the OED entry.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
>immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
>grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
>grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of the "be"s=
.
DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
think, and that really did.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:47:00 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived from "lone"=
which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped) of "alone." "Alon=
e" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived from a combination of "all=
one," a phrase that was current at the time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by t=
he loss of the initial vowel (aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the =
need for an adverbial form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we =
don't add -ly to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and OED concu=
rs, that the word was introduced by American philologist Maurice Bloomfield=
in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source are from the OED entry.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
>immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
>grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
>grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of the "be"s=
.
DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
think, and that really did.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at:
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To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:24:08 -0500
From: Susan van Druten <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
> "Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
> from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
> of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
> from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
> time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
> (aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
> form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
> to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
> Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
> OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
> Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
> are from the OED entry.
>
> Herb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
> Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>> . . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
>> immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
>> grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
>> grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
>> the "be"s.
>
> DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
> and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
> think, and that really did.
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 09:57:10 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Susan,
That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have excluded =
the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally." It's the native En=
glish prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc. We do have "sleepi=
ly," "warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the prefix if th=
ey add -ly. And the -ly is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, =
as with "wary" and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the=
Greek-derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation b=
ecause of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix of "alike"=
but we do in "amoral."
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
> "Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
> from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
> of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
> from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
> time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
> (aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
> form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
> to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
> Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
> OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
> Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
> are from the OED entry.
>
> Herb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
> Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>> . . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
>> immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
>> grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
>> grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
>> the "be"s.
>
> DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
> and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
> think, and that really did.
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 12:34:53 -0500
From: Susan van Druten <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
--Apple-Mail-1--127623998
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." Why did we retain that "a"?
But then there's "abreast." Why do you suppose we keep the same form
for the adverb? What's wrong with walking breastily?
On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
> Susan,
>
> That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have
> excluded the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally."
> It's the native English prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware,
> alive, etc. We do have "sleepily," "warily," and "lively," but
> notice that they all lose the prefix if they add -ly. And the -ly
> is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, as with "wary"
> and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the Greek-
> derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation
> because of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix
> of "alike" but we do in "amoral."
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
> Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
> that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
>
> Susan
>
>
> On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>
>> "Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
>> from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
>> of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
>> from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
>> time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
>> (aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
>> form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
>> to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
>> Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>>
>> There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
>> OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
>> Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
>> are from the OED entry.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
>> Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>>
>> At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>>> . . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
>>> immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
>>> grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
>>> grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
>>> the "be"s.
>>
>> DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
>> and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
>> think, and that really did.
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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--Apple-Mail-1--127623998
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1
<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." =A0 Why did we retain that =
"a"?<div><br></div><div>But then there's "abreast." =A0Why do you =
suppose we keep the same form for the adverb? =A0What's wrong with =
walking=A0<i>breastily</i>?</div><div><i><br></i></div><div><div>On May =
31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Susan,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">That's why I specified that it =
was prefixal a-, but I should have excluded the Greek-derived negative =
prefix a-, as in "amorally."<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>It's the native English prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, =
alive, etc.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>We do have =
"sleepily," "warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the =
prefix if they add -ly.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>And the -ly is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, as =
with "wary" and "sleepy."<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>By the way, one can make an argument that the Greek-derived a- is =
actually a bound root involved in compound formation because of its =
stress pattern.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Notice =
we don't stress the prefix of "alike" but we do in "amoral."</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">-----Original Message-----</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-31 09:24</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></div=
><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'm not =
sure what you mean.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>There are many adjectives turned adverb</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, =
adjectivally.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Susan</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F =
wrote:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> =
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"Lonely," by the way, is an =
interesting word, an adverb derived</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">from "lone" =
which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">of "alone."<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>"Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was =
current at the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">time.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>"Lone" appeared in 1377 by =
the loss of the initial vowel</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(aphesis, =
hence, "aphetic").<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I =
wonder if the need for an adverbial</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">form could =
have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-----Original =
Message-----</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: Assembly for the Teaching =
of English Grammar</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-31 08:39</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></div=
><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">There's =
even a name for it, haplology.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>Wikipedia informs me, and</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">OED concurs, =
that the word was introduced by American philologist</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>The date and source</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">are from the OED entry.</div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">-----Original Message-----</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: =
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of DD Farms</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-30 21:23</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></div=
><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">At 06:37 =
30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">. . . we don't generally like to repeat a =
syllable</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">immediately.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Notice how we can say "He's =
becoming a good</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">grammarian" but tend to avoid =
"He may be becoming a good</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">grammarian," =
and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">the "be"s.</div> </blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">DD: A =
really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the =
concept</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and thank you for the insight. I =
like things that make me stop and</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">think, and =
that really did.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit =
the list's web</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">interface at:</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 =
</span><a =
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo=
hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and select =
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14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Visit ATEG's web site at <a =
href=3D"http://ateg.org">http://ateg.org</a>/</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
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or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web</div><div =
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margin-left: 0px; ">interface at:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 </span><a =
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo=
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href=3D"http://ateg.org">http://ateg.org</a>/</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To join =
or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web</div><div =
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margin-left: 0px; ">interface at:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 </span><a =
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo=
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margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Visit ATEG's web site at <a =
href=3D"http://ateg.org">http://ateg.org</a>/</div> </blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
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--Apple-Mail-1--127623998--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 13:47:24 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
--_000_0DDF38BA66ECD847B39F1FD4C801D54304E8F280EMAILBACKEND07b_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Ashamedly" is a very nice counter-example, even if it's only an apparent c=
ounter-example. The initial a- is etymologically not a prefix, coming from=
OE asceamod, but that a- gets confused historically with the a- prefix we'=
re talking about, which derives from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, amon=
g other things, to form past participles, and it's that ge- prefix that is =
the primary source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives. My guess=
is that we retain the a- in "ashamedly" because it is historically part of=
the root, not a prefix, even though it's hard to tell from the a- of "awak=
e" in modern English. The form "ashamedly" would be a fossil. As to "brea=
stily," that does not suggest the same meaning as "abreast." I suspect it'=
s derived in a different way? "Abreast" is an interesting case where a mor=
pheme, "breast," maintains an older meaning in a very specialized usage.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 13:35
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." Why did we retain that "a"?
But then there's "abreast." Why do you suppose we keep the same form for t=
he adverb? What's wrong with walking breastily?
On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
Susan,
That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have excluded =
the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally." It's the native En=
glish prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc. We do have "sleepi=
ly," "warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the prefix if th=
ey add -ly. And the -ly is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, =
as with "wary" and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the=
Greek-derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation b=
ecause of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix of "alike"=
but we do in "amoral."
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
(aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
are from the OED entry.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
the "be"s.
DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
think, and that really did.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at:
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave=
the list"
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“Ashamedly” is a very nice counter-example, even=
if
it’s only an apparent counter-example. The initial a- is
etymologically not a prefix, coming from OE asceamod, but that a- gets conf=
used
historically with the a- prefix we’re talking about, which derives fr=
om
the OE prefix ge-, which is used, among other things, to form past particip=
les,
and it’s that ge- prefix that is the primary source of the modern Eng=
lish
a- prefix on adjectives. My guess is that we retain the a- in “=
ashamedly”
because it is historically part of the root, not a prefix, even though it&#=
8217;s
hard to tell from the a- of “awake” in modern English. Th=
e
form “ashamedly” would be a fossil. As to “breastil=
y,”
that does not suggest the same meaning as “abreast.” I
suspect it’s derived in a different way? “Abreast” =
is
an interesting case where a morpheme, “breast,” maintains an ol=
der
meaning in a very specialized usage. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Herb<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Assembly for =
the
Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On Behalf =
Of </b>Susan
van Druten<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2008-05-31 13:35<br>
<b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." &n=
bsp;
Why did we retain that "a"?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>But then there's "abreast." Why do you
suppose we keep the same form for the adverb? What's wrong with
walking <i>breastily</i>?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I =
should
have excluded the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally.&q=
uot;<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>It's the native English prefix =
a- as
in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nb=
sp; </span>We
do have "sleepily," "warily," and "lively," b=
ut
notice that they all lose the prefix if they add -ly.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>And the -ly is often added to a
derived adjective stem in -y, as with "wary" and "sleepy.&qu=
ot;<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>By the way, one can make an arg=
ument
that the Greek-derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound
formation because of its stress pattern.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space=
>
</span>Notice we don't stress the prefix of "alike" but we do in
"amoral."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>] On
Behalf Of Susan van Druten<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">ATEG@L=
ISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I'm not sure what you mean.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>There are many adjectives turne=
d
adverb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly,
amorally, adjectivally.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word=
, an
adverb derived<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form =
(initial
vowel dropped)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>of "alone."<span class=3Dapple-converted-spa=
ce>
</span>"Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>from a combination of "all one," a phrase th=
at was
current at the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>time.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span=
>"Lone"
appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>(aphesis, hence, "aphetic").<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>I wonder if the need for an adv=
erbial<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we d=
on't
add -ly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>[<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:AT=
[log in to unmask]</a>]
On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">ATEG@L=
ISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>There's even a name for it, haplology.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Wikipedia informs me, and<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American
philologist<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>The date and source<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>are from the OED entry.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>[<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:AT=
[log in to unmask]</a>]
On Behalf Of DD Farms<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">ATEG@L=
ISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>immediately.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> =
</span>Notice
how we can say "He's becoming a good<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be bec=
oming
a good<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we=
'll
drop one of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>the "be"s.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreci=
ate
the concept<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>and thank you for the insight. I like things that make=
me
stop and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>think, and that really did.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the =
list's
web<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>interface at:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the =
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web<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
p></p>
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</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the =
list's
web<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>interface at:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the =
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web interface at:<o:p></o:p></p>
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href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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p></p>
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ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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--_000_0DDF38BA66ECD847B39F1FD4C801D54304E8F280EMAILBACKEND07b_--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 13:27:24 -0500
From: Susan van Druten <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
--Apple-Mail-3--124473002
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=WINDOWS-1252;
delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Language is democratically crass. If it's hard for regular speakers =20
of the language to distinguish (because it is not stressed), then it =20
would make sense that it would wrongly be lumped with the rest and =20
lose the "a" prefix. Regular speakers aren't going to stop and say, =20
Wait, I don't have to say shamedly because the a is historically part =20=
of the root.
I was kidding about breastily. But I'm not sure what you mean about =20
it having an older meaning. Is there another meaning other than =20
"with breasts in line"?
I have the shorten OED (2 volumes), I will soon own Robertson's Words =20=
for a Modern Age, and I have downloaded the entire Etomonline from =20
Doug Harper, who says this about "ashamed":
ashamed - O.E. asceamed, pp. of ascamian "to put to shame," from a- =20
intensive prefix + scamian "to put to shame" (see shame).
Are there better or more varied sources I could be using?
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
> =93Ashamedly=94 is a very nice counter-example, even if it=92s only an =
=20
> apparent counter-example. The initial a- is etymologically not a =20
> prefix, coming from OE asceamod, but that a- gets confused =20
> historically with the a- prefix we=92re talking about, which derives =20=
> from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, among other things, to form =20
> past participles, and it=92s that ge- prefix that is the primary =20
> source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives. My guess is =20
> that we retain the a- in =93ashamedly=94 because it is historically =20=
> part of the root, not a prefix, even though it=92s hard to tell from =20=
> the a- of =93awake=94 in modern English. The form =93ashamedly=94 =
would be =20
> a fossil. As to =93breastily,=94 that does not suggest the same =20
> meaning as =93abreast.=94 I suspect it=92s derived in a different =
way? =20
> =93Abreast=94 is an interesting case where a morpheme, =93breast,=94 =20=
> maintains an older meaning in a very specialized usage.
>
>
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar =20
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
> Sent: 2008-05-31 13:35
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
>
>
> I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." Why did we retain that =20
> "a"?
>
>
>
> But then there's "abreast." Why do you suppose we keep the same =20
> form for the adverb? What's wrong with walking breastily?
>
>
>
> On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Susan,
>
>
>
> That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have =20
> excluded the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally." =20
> It's the native English prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, =20
> alive, etc. We do have "sleepily," "warily," and "lively," but =20
> notice that they all lose the prefix if they add -ly. And the -ly =20
> is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, as with "wary" =20
> and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the Greek-=20
> derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation =20
> because of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix =20
> of "alike" but we do in "amoral."
>
>
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar =20
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
>
> Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
>
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
>
> that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
>
>
>
> Susan
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>
>
>
> "Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
>
> from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
>
> of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
>
> from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
>
> time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
>
> (aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
>
> form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
>
> to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
>
>
>
> Herb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
>
> Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
>
>
> There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
>
> OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
>
> Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
>
> are from the OED entry.
>
>
>
> Herb
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
>
> Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
>
>
> At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>
> . . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
>
> immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
>
> grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
>
> grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
>
> the "be"s.
>
>
>
> DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
>
> and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
>
> think, and that really did.
>
>
>
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--Apple-Mail-3--124473002
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charset=WINDOWS-1252
<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<!--StartFragment--><span style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; =
"><b><u style=3D"text-decoration: none;"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
size=3D"5" style=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size:=
18px; "><div style=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px; font-weight: normal; =
"><div>Language is democratically crass. =A0If it's hard for regular =
speakers of the language to distinguish (because it is not stressed), =
then it would make sense that it would wrongly be lumped with the rest =
and lose the "a" prefix. =A0Regular speakers aren't going to stop and =
say, <i>Wait, I don't have to say </i>shamedly<i> because the </i>a =
<i>is historically part of the root.</i></div><div><br></div><div>I was =
kidding about breastily. =A0But I'm not sure what you mean about it =
having an older meaning. =A0Is there another meaning other than "with =
breasts in line"? =A0</div><div><br></div><div>I have the shorten OED (2 =
volumes), I will soon own Robertson's <i>Words for a Modern Age</i>, and =
I have downloaded the entire Etomonline from Doug Harper, who says this =
about "ashamed":</div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; =
"><br></div></div></span></div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"text-decoration: =
underline;">ashamed</span></span></font></u></b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 18px;"> - O.E. </span></font><i><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 18px;">asceamed,</span></font></i></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 18px;"> pp. of </span></font><i><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 18px;">ascamian</span></font></i></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 18px;"> "to put to shame," from =
</span></font><i><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
18px;">a-</span></font></i></span><span style=3D"font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 18px;"> intensive prefix =
+ </span></font><i><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
18px;">scamian</span></font></i></span><span style=3D"font-family: =
'Times New Roman'; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 18px;"> "to put to shame" =
(see </span></font><i><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
18px;">shame</span></font></i></span><span style=3D"font-family: 'Times =
New Roman'; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"5"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
18px;">).=A0</span></font></span><div><br></div><div>Are there better or =
more varied sources I could be =
using?</div><div><br></div><div>Susan</div><div><div><br></div><div><br><d=
iv><div>On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div =
class=3D"Section1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
"; color:#1F497D">=93Ashamedly=94 is a very nice counter-example, =
even if it=92s only an apparent counter-example.=A0 The initial a- is =
etymologically not a prefix, coming from OE asceamod, but that a- gets =
confused historically with the a- prefix we=92re talking about, which =
derives from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, among other things, to =
form past participles, and it=92s that ge- prefix that is the primary =
source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives.=A0 My guess is =
that we retain the a- in =93ashamedly=94 because it is historically part =
of the root, not a prefix, even though it=92s hard to tell from the a- =
of =93awake=94 in modern English.=A0 The form =93ashamedly=94 would be a =
fossil.=A0 As to =93breastily,=94 that does not suggest the same meaning =
as =93abreast.=94=A0 I suspect it=92s derived in a different way?=A0 =
=93Abreast=94 is an interesting case where a morpheme, =93breast,=94 =
maintains an older meaning in a very specialized usage. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
"; color:#1F497D"><o:p>=A0</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
"; color:#1F497D">Herb<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
"; color:#1F497D"><o:p>=A0</o:p></span></p> <div> <div =
style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif&=
quot;">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif&=
quot;"> Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan van Druten<br> <b>Sent:</b> 2008-05-31 =
13:35<br> <b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br> =
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> =
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I =
just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." =A0 Why did we retain that =
"a"?<o:p></o:p></p> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> =
</div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">But then there's "abreast." =A0Why do =
you suppose we keep the same form for the adverb? =A0What's wrong with =
walking=A0<i>breastily</i>?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> <br> =
<o:p></o:p></p> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Susan,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but =
I should have excluded the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in =
"amorally."<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>It's the =
native English prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>We do have "sleepily," =
"warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the prefix if they =
add -ly.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>And the -ly is =
often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, as with "wary" and =
"sleepy."<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>By the way, =
one can make an argument that the Greek-derived a- is actually a bound =
root involved in compound formation because of its stress pattern.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Notice we don't stress the =
prefix of "alike" but we do in "amoral."<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Herb<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">From: Assembly for the Teaching of English =
Grammar [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><o:p>=
</o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Subject: Re: Lonely =
Morphology<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">I'm not sure what you mean.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>There are many adjectives =
turned adverb<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">that =
start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, =
adjectivally.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Susan<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p=
> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting =
word, an adverb derived<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial =
vowel dropped)<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">of =
"alone."<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>"Alone" appears =
first in 1300 as an adjective derived<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was =
current at the<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">time.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>"Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial =
vowel<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">(aphesis, hence, =
"aphetic").<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I wonder if =
the need for an adverbial<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we =
don't add -ly<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">to =
adjectives starting with the prefix a-.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Herb<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">From: Assembly for the Teaching of English =
Grammar<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><o:p>=
</o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Subject: Re: Lonely =
Morphology<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">There's even a name for it, haplology.<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Wikipedia informs me, =
and<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">OED concurs, that =
the word was introduced by American philologist<o:p></o:p></p> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal =
article.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>The date and =
source<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">are from the =
OED entry.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Herb<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">From: Assembly for the Teaching of English =
Grammar<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of DD Farms<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><o:p>=
</o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Subject: Re: Lonely =
Morphology<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">. . . we don't generally like to repeat a =
syllable<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">immediately.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good<o:p></o:p></p> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be =
becoming a good<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll =
drop one of<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">the =
"be"s.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">DD: A really great point that was new to me. I =
appreciate the concept<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">and thank you for the insight. I like things that =
make me stop and<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">think, =
and that really did.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit =
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class=3D"apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 </span><a =
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--Apple-Mail-3--124473002--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 16:39:39 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Susan,
Generally speaking, the best general reference on English etymology is the =
OED 2nd Ed. Online. It's more comprehensive than the two-volume edition. =
After that, I'd go to something like Ernest Klein's A comprehensive etymolo=
gical dictionary of the English language; dealing with the origin of words =
and their sense development thus illustrating the history of civilization a=
nd culture, as the most thorough etymological dictionary available. Most o=
ther sources are selective as to which words they cover and tend to operate=
on a "wonder of words" basis.
What you've described as a typical native speaker reaction is dead on. Tha=
t's how analogical changes arise. But there still remain some fossilized f=
orms, and that's what I suggested "ashamedly" was. It would have come abou=
t before the past participle prefix developed into the modern English a- pr=
efix and so it would survive as a unique form.
As to breast, the older meaning refers to the front of the chest and was us=
ed of either sex. So "abreast" would have meant "chests aligned" rather th=
an "breasts aligned."
Herb
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]
U] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: May 31, 2008 2:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Language is democratically crass. If it's hard for regular speakers of the=
language to distinguish (because it is not stressed), then it would make s=
ense that it would wrongly be lumped with the rest and lose the "a" prefix.=
Regular speakers aren't going to stop and say, Wait, I don't have to say =
shamedly because the a is historically part of the root.
I was kidding about breastily. But I'm not sure what you mean about it hav=
ing an older meaning. Is there another meaning other than "with breasts in=
line"?
I have the shorten OED (2 volumes), I will soon own Robertson's Words for a=
Modern Age, and I have downloaded the entire Etomonline from Doug Harper, =
who says this about "ashamed":
ashamed - O.E. asceamed, pp. of ascamian "to put to shame," from a- intensi=
ve prefix + scamian "to put to shame" (see shame).
Are there better or more varied sources I could be using?
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
=93Ashamedly=94 is a very nice counter-example, even if it=92s only an appa=
rent counter-example. The initial a- is etymologically not a prefix, comin=
g from OE asceamod, but that a- gets confused historically with the a- pref=
ix we=92re talking about, which derives from the OE prefix ge-, which is us=
ed, among other things, to form past participles, and it=92s that ge- prefi=
x that is the primary source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives.=
My guess is that we retain the a- in =93ashamedly=94 because it is histor=
ically part of the root, not a prefix, even though it=92s hard to tell from=
the a- of =93awake=94 in modern English. The form =93ashamedly=94 would b=
e a fossil. As to =93breastily,=94 that does not suggest the same meaning =
as =93abreast.=94 I suspect it=92s derived in a different way? =93Abreast=
=94 is an interesting case where a morpheme, =93breast,=94 maintains an old=
er meaning in a very specialized usage.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 13:35
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." Why did we retain that "a"?
But then there's "abreast." Why do you suppose we keep the same form for t=
he adverb? What's wrong with walking breastily?
On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
Susan,
That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have excluded =
the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally." It's the native En=
glish prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc. We do have "sleepi=
ly," "warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the prefix if th=
ey add -ly. And the -ly is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, =
as with "wary" and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the=
Greek-derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation b=
ecause of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix of "alike"=
but we do in "amoral."
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
(aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
are from the OED entry.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
the "be"s.
DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
think, and that really did.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 19:24:10 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Susan,
Let me revise one thing I say below. I don't think it's the case that the =
female meaning of "breast" developed later than the general meaning. Rathe=
r, the earliest citation of that meaning comes from around 1000AD while the=
earliest citation of the gender-neutral meaning is about two centuries ear=
lier. Undoubtedly the two meanings were contemporaneous. The preservation=
of the latter meaning in fossilized forms like "breastplate," "breastworks=
," "breasting a wave," "keeping abreast of," etc. demonstrates that the gen=
der-neutral meaning is at best a secondary one today and more likely surviv=
es only in fossilized forms.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: 2008-05-31 16:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Susan,
Generally speaking, the best general reference on English etymology is the =
OED 2nd Ed. Online. It's more comprehensive than the two-volume edition. =
After that, I'd go to something like Ernest Klein's "A comprehensive etymol=
ogical dictionary of the English language; dealing with the origin of words=
and their sense development thus illustrating the history of civilization =
and culture," as the most thorough etymological dictionary available. Most=
other sources are selective as to which words they cover and tend to opera=
te on a "wonder of words" basis.
What you've described as a typical native speaker reaction is dead on. Tha=
t's how analogical changes arise. But there still remain some fossilized f=
orms, and that's what I suggested "ashamedly" was. It would have come abou=
t before the past participle prefix developed into the modern English a- pr=
efix and so it would survive as a unique form.
As to breast, the older meaning refers to the front of the chest and was us=
ed of either sex. So "abreast" would have meant "chests aligned" rather th=
an "breasts aligned."
Herb
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]
U] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: May 31, 2008 2:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Language is democratically crass. If it's hard for regular speakers of the=
language to distinguish (because it is not stressed), then it would make s=
ense that it would wrongly be lumped with the rest and lose the "a" prefix.=
Regular speakers aren't going to stop and say, Wait, I don't have to say =
shamedly because the a is historically part of the root.
I was kidding about breastily. But I'm not sure what you mean about it hav=
ing an older meaning. Is there another meaning other than "with breasts in=
line"?
I have the shorten OED (2 volumes), I will soon own Robertson's Words for a=
Modern Age, and I have downloaded the entire Etomonline from Doug Harper, =
who says this about "ashamed":
ashamed - O.E. asceamed, pp. of ascamian "to put to shame," from a- intensi=
ve prefix + scamian "to put to shame" (see shame).
Are there better or more varied sources I could be using?
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
"Ashamedly" is a very nice counter-example, even if it's only an apparent c=
ounter-example. The initial a- is etymologically not a prefix, coming from=
OE asceamod, but that a- gets confused historically with the a- prefix we'=
re talking about, which derives from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, amon=
g other things, to form past participles, and it's that ge- prefix that is =
the primary source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives. My guess=
is that we retain the a- in "ashamedly" because it is historically part of=
the root, not a prefix, even though it's hard to tell from the a- of "awak=
e" in modern English. The form "ashamedly" would be a fossil. As to "brea=
stily," that does not suggest the same meaning as "abreast." I suspect it'=
s derived in a different way? "Abreast" is an interesting case where a mor=
pheme, "breast," maintains an older meaning in a very specialized usage.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 13:35
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." Why did we retain that "a"?
But then there's "abreast." Why do you suppose we keep the same form for t=
he adverb? What's wrong with walking breastily?
On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
Susan,
That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have excluded =
the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally." It's the native En=
glish prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc. We do have "sleepi=
ly," "warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the prefix if th=
ey add -ly. And the -ly is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, =
as with "wary" and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the=
Greek-derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation b=
ecause of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix of "alike"=
but we do in "amoral."
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
(aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
are from the OED entry.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
the "be"s.
DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
think, and that really did.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 19:54:01 -0400
From: Martha Kolln <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ATEG Summer Conference
Dear Fellow ATEGers and friends,
Please check out ATEG.org for information about our summer
conference. We're meeting in July at Willamette University in Salem,
Oregon (just down the road from my hometown of Silverton), in
conjunction with the Oregon Writers Conference: July 11-12. (The
minicourse meets July 9-10.)
Amy Benjamin, our President, tells me that we have a splendid program
planned. Our keynoter this summer is our journal editor, Tim Hadley,
who will have some really important information for us. Here's his
title: "Seeing Grammar With New Eyes: New Insight and Expanded
Vision About How Grammar and Writing Instruction Converge."
Salem is a lovely drive of 50 miles or so from the Portland
airport--but there are also flights into Salem if you don't have a
car. Oregon is a lovely spot to visit in July. And our conference
is a very special kind of conference--where we all get to meet one
another and hear all the papers. You'll not find a friendlier
get-together. And I guarantee you'll go back to your school with
renewed energy.
Please put ATEG on your calendar.
Martha
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 19:41:48 -0500
From: Susan van Druten <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology and the right etymology source
--Apple-Mail-4--102009017
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Oh, crap. I bought Chambers instead of Klein. I even forgot I had
Chambers until you mentioned Klein. I always end up using Etymonline
because it's so handy (I can do a fast Ctrl+F search in an electronic
document that I can't do in a paper text). So, should I buy Klein?
What do you think about Etymonline? Is it so bad? You have to pay
for OED online, right?
The word abreast (as walking that way and keeping up with news)
couldn't be turned into the adverb form because it has that un-p.c.
meaning, right? My question is really jokingly asking if there is
another reason. Why do you think ashamedly was fossilized and all
the others were not fossilized? I am totally not expecting an answer
other than "I don't know."
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 6:24 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
> Susan,
>
> Let me revise one thing I say below. I don't think it's the case
> that the female meaning of "breast" developed later than the
> general meaning. Rather, the earliest citation of that meaning
> comes from around 1000AD while the earliest citation of the gender-
> neutral meaning is about two centuries earlier. Undoubtedly the
> two meanings were contemporaneous. The preservation of the latter
> meaning in fossilized forms like "breastplate," "breastworks,"
> "breasting a wave," "keeping abreast of," etc. demonstrates that
> the gender-neutral meaning is at best a secondary one today and
> more likely survives only in fossilized forms.
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
> Sent: 2008-05-31 16:40
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> Susan,
>
> Generally speaking, the best general reference on English etymology
> is the OED 2nd Ed. Online. It's more comprehensive than the two-
> volume edition. After that, I'd go to something like Ernest
> Klein's "A comprehensive etymological dictionary of the English
> language; dealing with the origin of words and their sense
> development thus illustrating the history of civilization and
> culture," as the most thorough etymological dictionary available.
> Most other sources are selective as to which words they cover and
> tend to operate on a "wonder of words" basis.
>
> What you've described as a typical native speaker reaction is dead
> on. That's how analogical changes arise. But there still remain
> some fossilized forms, and that's what I suggested "ashamedly"
> was. It would have come about before the past participle prefix
> developed into the modern English a- prefix and so it would survive
> as a unique form.
>
> As to breast, the older meaning refers to the front of the chest
> and was used of either sex. So "abreast" would have meant "chests
> aligned" rather than "breasts aligned."
>
> Herb
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
> [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: May 31, 2008 2:27 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> Language is democratically crass. If it's hard for regular
> speakers of the language to distinguish (because it is not
> stressed), then it would make sense that it would wrongly be lumped
> with the rest and lose the "a" prefix. Regular speakers aren't
> going to stop and say, Wait, I don't have to say shamedly because
> the a is historically part of the root.
>
> I was kidding about breastily. But I'm not sure what you mean
> about it having an older meaning. Is there another meaning other
> than "with breasts in line"?
>
> I have the shorten OED (2 volumes), I will soon own Robertson's
> Words for a Modern Age, and I have downloaded the entire Etomonline
> from Doug Harper, who says this about "ashamed":
>
> ashamed - O.E. asceamed, pp. of ascamian "to put to shame," from a-
> intensive prefix + scamian "to put to shame" (see shame).
>
> Are there better or more varied sources I could be using?
>
> Susan
>
>
> On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>
> "Ashamedly" is a very nice counter-example, even if it's only an
> apparent counter-example. The initial a- is etymologically not a
> prefix, coming from OE asceamod, but that a- gets confused
> historically with the a- prefix we're talking about, which derives
> from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, among other things, to form
> past participles, and it's that ge- prefix that is the primary
> source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives. My guess is
> that we retain the a- in "ashamedly" because it is historically
> part of the root, not a prefix, even though it's hard to tell from
> the a- of "awake" in modern English. The form "ashamedly" would be
> a fossil. As to "breastily," that does not suggest the same
> meaning as "abreast." I suspect it's derived in a different way?
> "Abreast" is an interesting case where a morpheme, "breast,"
> maintains an older meaning in a very specialized usage.
>
> Herb
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
> Sent: 2008-05-31 13:35
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." Why did we retain that
> "a"?
>
> But then there's "abreast." Why do you suppose we keep the same
> form for the adverb? What's wrong with walking breastily?
>
> On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>
>
> Susan,
>
> That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have
> excluded the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally."
> It's the native English prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware,
> alive, etc. We do have "sleepily," "warily," and "lively," but
> notice that they all lose the prefix if they add -ly. And the -ly
> is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, as with "wary"
> and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the Greek-
> derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation
> because of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix
> of "alike" but we do in "amoral."
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
> Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
> that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
>
> Susan
>
>
> On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
>
> "Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
> from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
> of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
> from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
> time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
> (aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
> form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
> to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
>
> Herb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
> Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
> OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
> Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
> are from the OED entry.
>
> Herb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
> Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
>
> At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
> . . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
> immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
> grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
> grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
> the "be"s.
>
> DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
> and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
> think, and that really did.
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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>
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>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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>
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--Apple-Mail-4--102009017
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1
<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Oh, crap. =A0I bought Chambers instead of Klein. =A0I even forgot I had =
Chambers until you mentioned Klein. =A0I always end up using Etymonline =
because it's so handy (I can do a fast Ctrl+F search in an electronic =
document that I can't do in a paper text). =A0So, should I buy Klein? =
=A0What do you think about Etymonline? =A0Is it so bad? =A0You have to =
pay for OED online, right?<div><br></div><div>The word abreast (as =
walking that way and keeping up with news) couldn't be turned into the =
adverb form because it has that un-p.c. meaning, right? =A0 My question =
is really jokingly asking if there is another reason. =A0Why do you =
think <i>ashamedly</i> was fossilized and all the others were not =
fossilized? =A0I am totally not expecting an answer other than "I don't =
know." =
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Susan<br><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On=
May 31, 2008, at 6:24 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Susan,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Let me revise one thing I say =
below.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I don't think =
it's the case that the female meaning of "breast" developed later than =
the general meaning.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>Rather, the earliest citation of that meaning comes from around =
1000AD while the earliest citation of the gender-neutral meaning is =
about two centuries earlier.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>Undoubtedly the two meanings were contemporaneous.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>The preservation of the =
latter meaning in fossilized forms like "breastplate," "breastworks," =
"breasting a wave," "keeping abreast of," etc. demonstrates that the =
gender-neutral meaning is at best a secondary one today and more likely =
survives only in fossilized forms.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Herb</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">-----Original Message-----</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: =
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-31 16:40</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></div=
><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Susan,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Generally speaking, the best general reference on =
English etymology is the OED 2nd Ed. Online.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>It's more comprehensive than =
the two-volume edition.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>After that, I'd go to something like Ernest Klein's "A =
comprehensive etymological dictionary of the English language; dealing =
with the origin of words and their sense development thus illustrating =
the history of civilization and culture," as the most thorough =
etymological dictionary available.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=
</span>Most other sources are selective as to which words they cover =
and tend to operate on a "wonder of words" basis.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">What =
you've described as a typical native speaker reaction is dead on.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>That's how analogical changes =
arise.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>But there still =
remain some fossilized forms, and that's what I suggested "ashamedly" =
was.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>It would have come =
about before the past participle prefix developed into the modern =
English a- prefix and so it would survive as a unique form.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">As to =
breast, the older meaning refers to the front of the chest and was used =
of either sex.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>So =
"abreast" would have meant "chests aligned" rather than "breasts =
aligned."</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">________________________________________</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: =
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>] =
On Behalf Of Susan van Druten [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>]</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: May 31, 2008 2:27 PM</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></div=
><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Language =
is democratically crass.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>If it's hard for regular speakers of the language to distinguish =
(because it is not stressed), then it would make sense that it would =
wrongly be lumped with the rest and lose the "a" prefix.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Regular speakers aren't going =
to stop and say, Wait, I don't have to say shamedly because the a is =
historically part of the root.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I was kidding about =
breastily.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>But I'm not =
sure what you mean about it having an older meaning.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Is there another meaning =
other than "with breasts in line"?</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I have the shorten OED (2 =
volumes), I will soon own Robertson's Words for a Modern Age, and I have =
downloaded the entire Etomonline from Doug Harper, who says this about =
"ashamed":</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">ashamed - O.E. asceamed, pp. of ascamian "to put to =
shame," from a- intensive prefix + scamian "to put to shame" (see =
shame).</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Are there better or more varied sources I could be =
using?</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Susan</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F =
wrote:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"Ashamedly" is a very nice counter-example, even if =
it's only an apparent counter-example.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>The initial a- is =
etymologically not a prefix, coming from OE asceamod, but that a- gets =
confused historically with the a- prefix we're talking about, which =
derives from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, among other things, to =
form past participles, and it's that ge- prefix that is the primary =
source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>My guess is that we retain =
the a- in "ashamedly" because it is historically part of the root, not a =
prefix, even though it's hard to tell from the a- of "awake" in modern =
English.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>The form =
"ashamedly" would be a fossil.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>As to "breastily," that does not suggest the same meaning as =
"abreast."<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I suspect =
it's derived in a different way?<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>"Abreast" is an interesting case where a morpheme, "breast," =
maintains an older meaning in a very specialized usage.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-31 13:35</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: =
[log in to unmask]<<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely =
Morphology</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Why did we retain that =
"a"?</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">But then there's "abreast."<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Why do you suppose we keep =
the same form for the adverb?<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>What's wrong with walking breastily?</div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On May 31, =
2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:</div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Susan,</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">That's =
why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have excluded the =
Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally."<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>It's the native English =
prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>We do have "sleepily," =
"warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the prefix if they =
add -ly.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>And the -ly is =
often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, as with "wary" and =
"sleepy."<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>By the way, =
one can make an argument that the Greek-derived a- is actually a bound =
root involved in compound formation because of its stress pattern.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Notice we don't stress the =
prefix of "alike" but we do in "amoral."</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">-----Original Message-----</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-31 09:24</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: =
[log in to unmask]<<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely =
Morphology</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">I'm not sure what you mean.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>There are many adjectives =
turned adverb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that start with an "a": amiably, =
absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Susan</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On May 31, =
2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:</div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"Lonely," by =
the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial =
vowel dropped)</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of "alone."<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>"Alone" appears first in 1300 =
as an adjective derived</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">from a =
combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">time.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</span>"Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial =
vowel</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(aphesis, hence, =
"aphetic").<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I wonder if =
the need for an adverbial</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">form could =
have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-----Original =
Message-----</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: Assembly for the Teaching =
of English Grammar</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-31 08:39</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: =
[log in to unmask]<<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely =
Morphology</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">There's even a name for it, haplology.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Wikipedia informs me, =
and</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">OED concurs, that the word was =
introduced by American philologist</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Maurice =
Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>The date and source</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">are from the OED entry.</div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Herb</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">-----Original Message-----</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: =
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">[<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>] On Behalf Of DD Farms</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: =
2008-05-30 21:23</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: =
[log in to unmask]<<a =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</=
a>></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Lonely =
Morphology</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F =
wrote:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">. . . we don't generally like to =
repeat a syllable</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">immediately.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Notice how we can say "He's =
becoming a good</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">grammarian" but tend to avoid =
"He may be becoming a good</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">grammarian," =
and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">the "be"s.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">DD: A really great point that =
was new to me. I appreciate the concept</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and =
thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">think, and that really did.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To join =
or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">interface at:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 </span><a =
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo=
hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and select =
"Join or leave the list"</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
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14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Visit ATEG's web site at <a =
href=3D"http://ateg.org">http://ateg.org</a>/</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
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class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =A0 </span><a =
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo=
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margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Visit ATEG's web site at <a =
href=3D"http://ateg.org">http://ateg.org</a>/</div><div =
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--Apple-Mail-4--102009017--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 23:49:55 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology and the right etymology source
--_000_0DDF38BA66ECD847B39F1FD4C801D54304E8F282EMAILBACKEND07b_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chambers is a solid piece of work, and quite thorough. I wouldn't fork out=
the $150 for Klein unless you're going to do some serious etymological wor=
k. As to the OED Online, you might check whether libraries in your area ha=
ve subscriptions. I haven't used Etymonline much, but it looks like it pro=
vides a quick sketch. One of my test words for an etymological dictionary =
is "church." The OED treatment is thorough, in depth, and a bit technical,=
and reading between the lines of it ends up telling a great story. Etymon=
line provides the basic information.
As to why "ashamedly" fossilized and the others did not, keep in mind that =
the others we're talking about are very different forms. They have the mod=
ern English a- derived from the old past participle prefix by ge- > i- > a-=
, which actually represents a schwa. So "ashamedly" would not have been id=
entified by native speakers as part of that set of words before Early Moder=
n English, that is, after about 1500. The OED lists "ashamedly" as rare, p=
roviding only one citation, and that from 1600. The "unashamedly" citation=
s are more numerous but also start from 1600, so it first appears in print =
in Early Modern English. One of the signs of fossilization in the word is =
the presence of the schwa in the past suffix. Normally by EModE times most=
of those had been dropped.
But there is no reason why it should have been classed with the a- prefix f=
orms since there were at the time many other words spelled with initial <a>=
and pronounced with schwa that were not reanalyzed as having prefixes. Th=
ink of "abuse," "adore," "appear," "assign," etc.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 20:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology and the right etymology source
Oh, crap. I bought Chambers instead of Klein. I even forgot I had Chamber=
s until you mentioned Klein. I always end up using Etymonline because it's=
so handy (I can do a fast Ctrl+F search in an electronic document that I c=
an't do in a paper text). So, should I buy Klein? What do you think about=
Etymonline? Is it so bad? You have to pay for OED online, right?
The word abreast (as walking that way and keeping up with news) couldn't be=
turned into the adverb form because it has that un-p.c. meaning, right? =
My question is really jokingly asking if there is another reason. Why do y=
ou think ashamedly was fossilized and all the others were not fossilized? =
I am totally not expecting an answer other than "I don't know."
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 6:24 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
Susan,
Let me revise one thing I say below. I don't think it's the case that the =
female meaning of "breast" developed later than the general meaning. Rathe=
r, the earliest citation of that meaning comes from around 1000AD while the=
earliest citation of the gender-neutral meaning is about two centuries ear=
lier. Undoubtedly the two meanings were contemporaneous. The preservation=
of the latter meaning in fossilized forms like "breastplate," "breastworks=
," "breasting a wave," "keeping abreast of," etc. demonstrates that the gen=
der-neutral meaning is at best a secondary one today and more likely surviv=
es only in fossilized forms.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: 2008-05-31 16:40
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Susan,
Generally speaking, the best general reference on English etymology is the =
OED 2nd Ed. Online. It's more comprehensive than the two-volume edition. =
After that, I'd go to something like Ernest Klein's "A comprehensive etymol=
ogical dictionary of the English language; dealing with the origin of words=
and their sense development thus illustrating the history of civilization =
and culture," as the most thorough etymological dictionary available. Most=
other sources are selective as to which words they cover and tend to opera=
te on a "wonder of words" basis.
What you've described as a typical native speaker reaction is dead on. Tha=
t's how analogical changes arise. But there still remain some fossilized f=
orms, and that's what I suggested "ashamedly" was. It would have come abou=
t before the past participle prefix developed into the modern English a- pr=
efix and so it would survive as a unique form.
As to breast, the older meaning refers to the front of the chest and was us=
ed of either sex. So "abreast" would have meant "chests aligned" rather th=
an "breasts aligned."
Herb
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]
U<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten [bosvd@CP=
INTERNET.COM<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: May 31, 2008 2:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
Language is democratically crass. If it's hard for regular speakers of the=
language to distinguish (because it is not stressed), then it would make s=
ense that it would wrongly be lumped with the rest and lose the "a" prefix.=
Regular speakers aren't going to stop and say, Wait, I don't have to say =
shamedly because the a is historically part of the root.
I was kidding about breastily. But I'm not sure what you mean about it hav=
ing an older meaning. Is there another meaning other than "with breasts in=
line"?
I have the shorten OED (2 volumes), I will soon own Robertson's Words for a=
Modern Age, and I have downloaded the entire Etomonline from Doug Harper, =
who says this about "ashamed":
ashamed - O.E. asceamed, pp. of ascamian "to put to shame," from a- intensi=
ve prefix + scamian "to put to shame" (see shame).
Are there better or more varied sources I could be using?
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
"Ashamedly" is a very nice counter-example, even if it's only an apparent c=
ounter-example. The initial a- is etymologically not a prefix, coming from=
OE asceamod, but that a- gets confused historically with the a- prefix we'=
re talking about, which derives from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, amon=
g other things, to form past participles, and it's that ge- prefix that is =
the primary source of the modern English a- prefix on adjectives. My guess=
is that we retain the a- in "ashamedly" because it is historically part of=
the root, not a prefix, even though it's hard to tell from the a- of "awak=
e" in modern English. The form "ashamedly" would be a fossil. As to "brea=
stily," that does not suggest the same meaning as "abreast." I suspect it'=
s derived in a different way? "Abreast" is an interesting case where a mor=
pheme, "breast," maintains an older meaning in a very specialized usage.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 13:35
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." Why did we retain that "a"?
But then there's "abreast." Why do you suppose we keep the same form for t=
he adverb? What's wrong with walking breastily?
On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
Susan,
That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I should have excluded =
the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally." It's the native En=
glish prefix a- as in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc. We do have "sleepi=
ly," "warily," and "lively," but notice that they all lose the prefix if th=
ey add -ly. And the -ly is often added to a derived adjective stem in -y, =
as with "wary" and "sleepy." By the way, one can make an argument that the=
Greek-derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound formation b=
ecause of its stress pattern. Notice we don't stress the prefix of "alike"=
but we do in "amoral."
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan van Druten
Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
I'm not sure what you mean. There are many adjectives turned adverb
that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly, amorally, adjectivally.
Susan
On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word, an adverb derived
from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form (initial vowel dropped)
of "alone." "Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived
from a combination of "all one," a phrase that was current at the
time. "Lone" appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel
(aphesis, hence, "aphetic"). I wonder if the need for an adverbial
form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we don't add -ly
to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
There's even a name for it, haplology. Wikipedia informs me, and
OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American philologist
Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article. The date and source
are from the OED entry.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology
At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:
. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable
immediately. Notice how we can say "He's becoming a good
grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be becoming a good
grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we'll drop one of
the "be"s.
DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreciate the concept
and thank you for the insight. I like things that make me stop and
think, and that really did.
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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap: break-wor=
d;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Chambers is a solid piece of work, and quite thorough. =
I
wouldn’t fork out the $150 for Klein unless you’re going to do =
some
serious etymological work. As to the OED Online, you might check whet=
her
libraries in your area have subscriptions. I haven’t used
Etymonline much, but it looks like it provides a quick sketch. One of=
my
test words for an etymological dictionary is “church.” Th=
e
OED treatment is thorough, in depth, and a bit technical, and reading betwe=
en
the lines of it ends up telling a great story. Etymonline provides th=
e
basic information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As to why “ashamedly” fossilized and the others =
did
not, keep in mind that the others we’re talking about are very differ=
ent
forms. They have the modern English a- derived from the old past
participle prefix by ge- > i- > a-, which actually represents a
schwa. So ”ashamedly” would not have been identified by
native speakers as part of that set of words before Early Modern English, t=
hat
is, after about 1500. The OED lists “ashamedly” as rare,
providing only one citation, and that from 1600. The “unashamed=
ly”
citations are more numerous but also start from 1600, so it first appears i=
n print
in Early Modern English. One of the signs of fossilization in the wor=
d is
the presence of the schwa in the past suffix. Normally by EModE times
most of those had been dropped.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>But there is no reason why it should have been classed with =
the
a- prefix forms since there were at the time many other words spelled with
initial <a> and pronounced with schwa that were not reanalyzed as hav=
ing
prefixes. Think of “abuse,” “adore,” “a=
ppear,”
“assign,” etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Herb<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Assembly for =
the
Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On Behalf =
Of </b>Susan
van Druten<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2008-05-31 20:42<br>
<b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Lonely Morphology and the right etymology source<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Oh, crap. I bought Chambers instead of Klein. &n=
bsp;I
even forgot I had Chambers until you mentioned Klein. I always end up
using Etymonline because it's so handy (I can do a fast Ctrl+F search in an
electronic document that I can't do in a paper text). So, should I bu=
y
Klein? What do you think about Etymonline? Is it so bad? =
You
have to pay for OED online, right?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>The word abreast (as walking that way and keeping up w=
ith
news) couldn't be turned into the adverb form because it has that un-p.c.
meaning, right? My question is really jokingly asking if there is
another reason. Why do you think <i>ashamedly</i> was fossilized and =
all
the others were not fossilized? I am totally not expecting an answer
other than "I don't know." <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On May 31, 2008, at 6:24 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Let me revise one thing I say below.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>I don't think it's the case tha=
t the
female meaning of "breast" developed later than the general meani=
ng.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Rather, the earliest citation o=
f that
meaning comes from around 1000AD while the earliest citation of the
gender-neutral meaning is about two centuries earlier.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Undoubtedly the two meanings we=
re
contemporaneous.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>The
preservation of the latter meaning in fossilized forms like
"breastplate," "breastworks," "breasting a wave,&q=
uot;
"keeping abreast of," etc. demonstrates that the gender-neutral
meaning is at best a secondary one today and more likely survives only in
fossilized forms.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>] On
Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-31 16:40<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">ATEG@L=
ISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Generally speaking, the best general reference on Engl=
ish
etymology is the OED 2nd Ed. Online.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nb=
sp; </span>It's
more comprehensive than the two-volume edition.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>After that, I'd go to something=
like
Ernest Klein's "A comprehensive etymological dictionary of the English
language; dealing with the origin of words and their sense development thus
illustrating the history of civilization and culture," as the most
thorough etymological dictionary available.<span class=3Dapple-converted-sp=
ace>
</span>Most other sources are selective as to which words they cover and te=
nd
to operate on a "wonder of words" basis.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>What you've described as a typical native speaker reac=
tion is
dead on.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>That's how analog=
ical
changes arise.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>But there s=
till
remain some fossilized forms, and that's what I suggested "ashamedly&q=
uot;
was.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>It would have come ab=
out
before the past participle prefix developed into the modern English a- pref=
ix
and so it would survive as a unique form.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>As to breast, the older meaning refers to the front of=
the
chest and was used of either sex.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> =
</span>So
"abreast" would have meant "chests aligned" rather than
"breasts aligned."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>] On B=
ehalf
Of Susan van Druten [<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">bosvd@CPINTERN=
ET.COM</a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: May 31, 2008 2:27 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">ATEG@L=
ISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Language is democratically crass.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>If it's hard for regular speake=
rs of
the language to distinguish (because it is not stressed), then it would mak=
e
sense that it would wrongly be lumped with the rest and lose the "a&qu=
ot;
prefix.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Regular speakers a=
ren't
going to stop and say, Wait, I don't have to say shamedly because the a is
historically part of the root.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I was kidding about breastily.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>But I'm not sure what you mean =
about
it having an older meaning.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </spa=
n>Is
there another meaning other than "with breasts in line"?<o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I have the shorten OED (2 volumes), I will soon own
Robertson's Words for a Modern Age, and I have downloaded the entire Etomon=
line
from Doug Harper, who says this about "ashamed":<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>ashamed - O.E. asceamed, pp. of ascamian "to put =
to
shame," from a- intensive prefix + scamian "to put to shame"
(see shame).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Are there better or more varied sources I could be usi=
ng?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On May 31, 2008, at 12:47 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote=
:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>"Ashamedly" is a very nice counter-example, =
even
if it's only an apparent counter-example.<span class=3Dapple-converted-spac=
e>
</span>The initial a- is etymologically not a prefix, coming from OE asceam=
od,
but that a- gets confused historically with the a- prefix we're talking abo=
ut,
which derives from the OE prefix ge-, which is used, among other things, to
form past participles, and it's that ge- prefix that is the primary source =
of
the modern English a- prefix on adjectives.<span class=3Dapple-converted-sp=
ace>
</span>My guess is that we retain the a- in "ashamedly" because i=
t is
historically part of the root, not a prefix, even though it's hard to tell =
from
the a- of "awake" in modern English.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>The form "ashamedly" =
would
be a fossil.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>As to
"breastily," that does not suggest the same meaning as "abre=
ast."<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>I suspect it's derived in a dif=
ferent
way?<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>"Abreast" i=
s an
interesting case where a morpheme, "breast," maintains an older
meaning in a very specialized usage.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>] On
Behalf Of Susan van Druten<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-31 13:35<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: [log in to unmask]<<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I just can resist mentioning "ashamedly." <s=
pan
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Why did we retain that "a&=
quot;?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>But then there's "abreast."<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Why do you suppose we keep the =
same
form for the adverb?<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>What'=
s
wrong with walking breastily?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On May 31, 2008, at 8:57 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>That's why I specified that it was prefixal a-, but I =
should
have excluded the Greek-derived negative prefix a-, as in "amorally.&q=
uot;<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>It's the native English prefix =
a- as
in asleep, awake, aware, alive, etc.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nb=
sp; </span>We
do have "sleepily," "warily," and "lively," b=
ut
notice that they all lose the prefix if they add -ly.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>And the -ly is often added to a
derived adjective stem in -y, as with "wary" and "sleepy.&qu=
ot;<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>By the way, one can make an arg=
ument
that the Greek-derived a- is actually a bound root involved in compound
formation because of its stress pattern.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space=
>
</span>Notice we don't stress the prefix of "alike" but we do in
"amoral."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>] On
Behalf Of Susan van Druten<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-31 09:24<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: [log in to unmask]<<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I'm not sure what you mean.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>There are many adjectives turne=
d
adverb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>that start with an "a": amiably, absurdly,
amorally, adjectivally.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Susan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On May 31, 2008, at 7:47 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>"Lonely," by the way, is an interesting word=
, an
adverb derived<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>from "lone" which is itself an aphetic form
(initial vowel dropped)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>of "alone."<span class=3Dapple-converted-spa=
ce>
</span>"Alone" appears first in 1300 as an adjective derived<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>from a combination of "all one," a phrase th=
at was
current at the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>time.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span=
>"Lone"
appeared in 1377 by the loss of the initial vowel<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>(aphesis, hence, "aphetic").<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>I wonder if the need for an adv=
erbial<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>form could have contributed to the aphesis, since we d=
on't
add -ly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>to adjectives starting with the prefix a-.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>[<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:AT=
[log in to unmask]</a>]
On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-31 08:39<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: [log in to unmask]<<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>There's even a name for it, haplology.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Wikipedia informs me, and<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>OED concurs, that the word was introduced by American
philologist<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Maurice Bloomfield in an 1895 Journal article.<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>The date and source<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>are from the OED entry.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>[<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:AT=
[log in to unmask]</a>]
On Behalf Of DD Farms<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 2008-05-30 21:23<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To: [log in to unmask]<<a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a=
>><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: Lonely Morphology<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>At 06:37 30/05/2008, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>. . . we don't generally like to repeat a syllable<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>immediately.<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> =
</span>Notice
how we can say "He's becoming a good<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>grammarian" but tend to avoid "He may be bec=
oming
a good<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>grammarian," and if we say it in normal speech we=
'll
drop one of<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>the "be"s.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>DD: A really great point that was new to me. I appreci=
ate
the concept<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>and thank you for the insight. I like things that make=
me
stop and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>think, and that really did.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the =
list's
web<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>interface at:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the =
list's
web<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>interface at:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the =
list's
web<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>interface at:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
p></p>
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<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muoh=
io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
p></p>
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<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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io.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:=
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org">h=
ttp://ateg.org</a>/<o:p></o:p></p>
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End of ATEG Digest - 30 May 2008 to 31 May 2008 (#2008-121)
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