A quick look at a few dictionaries shows that "as well as" can be both preposition and conjunction. A quick google search shows a huge number of examples of "as well as" as conjunction, but not in the subject slot, which may be a reaction to the usage difficulties around it. I won't have access to the OED until tomorrow. Typically, Merriam-Webster college dictionary lists "brave as well as loyal" as an example of "as well as" as conjunction. Why we would have to treat a compound so created as singular in subject slot is beyond me. Craig Hi again everyone, > > I have another reference: A Writer's Resource (second edition) by > Maimon, Peritz, and > Yancey. The authors warn, "[do] not lose sight of the subject when a word > group separates it from the verb" and "[i]f a word group beginning > with as well as, along with, or in addition to follows a singular subject, > the subject does not become plural" (478). > Their example: My teacher, as well as other faculty members, opposes > the new school policy. > > --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Michael Keith Pen Ultimate Rare Books > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > From: Michael Keith Pen Ultimate Rare Books <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question > To: [log in to unmask] > Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 11:29 AM > > > > > Morning everyone > > I might have predicted that my very first ATEG post would get me into > trouble. So cool to find some colleagues who actually care about > such things! > > Unfortunately, Dick, I cannot yet cite an authority for you. Indeed > two of my own favorite authorities, Foerster & Steadman, in Writing > and Thinking, suggest that my usage is appropriate "only in informal, > colloquial discourse" though they seem to waver on that principle > elsewhere in W&T. F&S call this sentence, "He, as > well as his friends, was present" right but awkward. I suspect > they'd use the same classification for the S&W sentence. Though > without those commas, it strikes me that "as well as" means simply > "and." > > I'll forward the question to one of my teachers, Lynn Troyka. Maybe > we can get some consensus from her. > > BTW, Craig, I offered up "objective" a bit > prematurely. I'm still working out that theory, but I'll get back to > you. > > Michael > > > -------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard" > <[log in to unmask]>: -------------- > > > > > > > > Michael, > > You are saying that you disagree with Strunk and White (quoted by Carol > below). Are there equivalent authorities you can cite? I am not saying > “authorities” are ipso facto right (for example, you can still find > textbooks that pronounce it ungrammatical to end a sentence with a > preposition), but in matters like this there is often an agreed upon > consensus. > > Dick > > > > > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Keith Pen Ultimate > Rare Books > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:30 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question > > > Dick et al > > > > Ask yourself why "his speech as well as his manners is objectionable" > doesn't sound right. In that sentence I suspect that "as well as his > manners" serves as a delayed, emphatic additional subject--something akin > to: also especially his manners!--and is therefore and thereby > plural. Remember, if the subject is plural, the verb should be > as well. Many subjects succeeded by "as well as" are intended > indeed to be singular. The subject/example you provided, in most > contexts, emphatically is NOT. Grammar, like language and concepts, > is contextual and objective. > > > > Michael > > -------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard" > <[log in to unmask]>: -------------- > Thanks, Carol. That is most helpful. Is it is. I knew that intellectually > but wish it sounded right too. For example, change “manner” to “manners” > in the Strunk and White example and it doesn’t seem as clear cut: "His > speech as well as his manners is objectionable." > > Dick Veit > > > > > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 4:11 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question > > > > > > According to Strunk and White in The Elements of Style, "[a] singular > subject remains singular even if other nouns are connected to it by with, > as well as, in addition to, except, together with, and no less than (21). > So I believe that your last example would take the verb "is". Strunk and > White give the following example: "His speech as well as his manner > is objectionable" (21). > I'm not sure if the comma between "society at large" and "as well as" > changes that in your sentence though. > > --- On Sun, 6/15/08, Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > From: Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: a subject-verb-agreement question > To: [log in to unmask] > Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 3:32 PM > > > A little help, please, with subject/verb agreement in a sentence. These I > have no trouble with: > > > Good policy will come when society at large is educated about HPV. > Good policy will come when at-risk individuals are educated about HPV. > Good policy will come when society at large and at-risk individuals are > educated about HPV. > > And pretty sure about this: > > > Good policy will come when society at large (not just at-risk individuals) > is educated about HPV. > > But what about this one? > > > Good policy will come when society at large, as well as at-risk > individuals, is/are educated about HPV. > > Do the commas make the second phrase an aside so that the verb should > agree with “society” only (i.e., “is”)? Or do we treat “as well as” as > equivalent to “and,” making “are” the right choice? I seek your informed > guidance on the matter. Any specific reference to authority is especially > welcome. > > Dick > ________________________________ > Richard Veit > Department of English > University of North Carolina Wilmington > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV > list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave > the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV > list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave > the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV > list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave > the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/