A couple of months ago, I was talking about the problems with the "complete thought" definition with a colleague who's known me for years, and I tossed in "How does anyone know if they're having complete thoughts?" Her immediate reply was, "Bill, yours are run-ons." Bill Spruiell From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: {spam?} RE: Sentences are modern inventions. NOT; was ATEG Digest - 24 Jun 2008 to 25 Jun 2008 (#2008-144) "The Sentence - A Discussion" - a perfect topic for grammarians. At least for now. Both sentences? Right? (Including the preceding!) Geoff Layton > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:14 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Sentences are modern inventions. NOT; was ATEG Digest - 24 Jun 2008 to 25 Jun 2008 (#2008-144) > To: [log in to unmask] > > Scott: > > We're not questioning that Medieval writers had thoughts as complete as > ours (or at least, I know I'm not questioning that, and I doubt anyone > else would). It's just that the relation between "complete thought" and > "sentence" isn't as straightforward as it's sometimes presented. Compare > the following: > > 1. Most of us wanted pizza, although Bjarki wanted surstromming. > 2. Most of us wanted pizza. *Although Bjarki wanted > surstromming. > 3. Most of us wanted pizza. However, Bjarki wanted surstromming. > > I'd have enormous trouble trying to support the claim that "although" > gives you one complete thought in #1, but "however" leads to two > complete thoughts in #3, and that anyone who wrote #2 (both parts, not > just the second) was having incomplete thoughts. That *issue* would not, > I think, have come up in the medieval period -- you wrote it, and it > made sense, so it was complete. > > Bill Spruiell > Dept. of English > Central Michigan University > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:40 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Sentences are modern inventions. NOT; was ATEG Digest - 24 > Jun 2008 to 25 Jun 2008 (#2008-144) > > Having read facsimiles and a few original medieval documents, I am well > aware that they did not have our modern sentence structure nor did they > necessarily start with a capital and end with a period. The primary > point is that they did have complete thoughts and wrote them. That we > may choose to punctuate them by joining two independent clauses with a > colon or semicolon in lieu of having two short sentences is irrelevant > to the concept that medieval writers did not, as a general rule, write > in sentences. > > I must be missing some critical point. All I read are allegations. > Unless someone gets on line and starts citing a number of medieval > MSS that do not have complete sentences) preferably MSS in Latin, > German, or Romance languages (Koine is too argumentative), I tend to > consider such allegations specious. > > Scott > I'm from MS not MO, but show me anyway. > > *********************************************************** > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ________________________________ The i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Learn More <http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/