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The sentence in question is, I washed my hair after I (finished/had finished) my homework.

You didn't say, which doesn't surprise me, but since I think "finished" is correct and you wouldn't be writing if you agreed, I assume you think the sentence should read, "I washed my hair after I had finished my homework."

I further said, 'Washed' is a past tense verb as that word is used in the sentence. Nota Bene: as that word is used in the sentence.

The past tense form and past participle form of many verbs are the same. Agreed.

The past tense form and past participle form of wash, like all regular verbs in English, is the same. Agreed.

5) Brad washed the dishes. 6) Brad has washed the dishes. Agreed.

Insert 'not' in 5 and 6.

7) Brad did not wash the dishes. 8) Brad has not washed the dishes. Agreed.

It just so happens that these two forms for wash, unlike write, are the same. Agreed.

O.K., Bob, now what? What does this interesting diversion have to do with the Schatz sentence? which is where we started.

... the verb in the sentence is past tense, in which case it will read, I washed my hair after I finished my homework, or,

... the verb in the sentence is past perfect tense, in which case it will read, I washed my hair after I had finished my homework.

(I think you'll agree that the word 'washed' is one or the other by virtue of how it functions, not by what other word she may have put in front of it.)

Ask them to reply to you and not to the list. (After two or three replies, the list dries up.) See how many of the 330 you can get to vote. And let me know.

I'm sorry you're set for 'plain text'. That tends to make a mess of it. But we'll get by.

.brad.29nov08.

--- On Sat, 11/29/08, Robert Yates <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I know I should not do this, but when a person claims great knowledge of grammar, it might be time to point out a rather egregious error. Brad, our expert on "correct" English writes: 'caught', 'finished', and 'washed' are all past tense verbs, as those words are used in the above sentences. The word 'had' does not belong in front of past tense verbs. One of the properties of English is that the past tense form and past participle form of many verbs are the same. Let's consider why this must be the case. Clearly wrote and write are not the same form of the verb write in 1 and 2. 1) Brad wrote a post. 2 Brad has written a post. Notice what happens when "not" is inserted. 3) Brad did not write a post. 4) Brad has not written a post. "not" goes in front of the tense verb in both. If there is not a helping verb, in other words, the past tense form is the only tensed verb, then we need a form of do. The past tense form and past participle form of wash, like all regular verbs in English, is the same. 5) Brad washed the dishes. 6) Brad has washed the dishes. Insert not in 5 and 6. 7) Brad did not wash the dishes. 8) Brad has not washed the dishes. Because sentences 7 and 8 pattern the same way as 3 and 4, it seems much easier to assume that wash, like write, has two different forms: a past tense form and a past participle. It just so happens that these two forms for wash, unlike write, are the same. If we don't like that solution, then we have to tell a completely different story for write as opposed to wash. By the way, if you want to tell a completely different story for wash, then what kind of story do you have to tell for put (or cut or hit)? 9) You now put the dishes away. 10) You put the dishes away yesterday. 11) You have put the dishes away. Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri **** For someone so sure about what is correct and incorrect, it more than a little surprising that he cannot keep straight the difference between past tense form of a verb and the past participle form of the verb. Brad Johnston [log in to unmask]> 11/28/08 6:07 PM Grammar Rules, by Mary S. Schatz, c.2002 by Garlic Press. page 171 - Skill Check - Choose the best sentence in each group. Her pick. Wrapped in an old shawl, the elderly man carried a smelly fish he (had) caught in the river. page 172 - Skill Check - Choose the correct word. I washed my hair after I (finished/had finished) my homework. Her pick. I washed my hair after I (had) finished my homework. page 172 - Correct the errors. There was a dead whale that had washed up on the beach that caused a nuisance in a small Oregon town. Her correction: A dead whale that (had) washed up on the beach caused a nuisance in a small Oregon town. 'caught', 'finished', and 'washed' are all past tense verbs, as those words are used in the above sentences. The word 'had' does not belong in front of past tense verbs. This is Exhibit #90+ to my assertion that there is at least one past perfect error on any grammar website or in any grammar text you can name. .brad.28nov08.