You want a "nevermind" 'cause you are at fault.  So I understand why  
you'd like a pass on that.  I'll let it go because we have bigger  
disagreements.

Most political speakers have speech writers--so I discount their use  
of language and go for their delivery and charisma 'cause you can't  
trust that they wrote their own words.

Some political speakers have oral flaws.  Henry's got a huge one and  
you want to wave it away.  Not so fast.  If he can work on his  
grammar, what the hell is keeping him from working on his dialect.   
Meryl Streep can do it.  Why is Kissinger finding it so difficult?

Perhaps learning how to pronounce a word in an accurate American  
dialect might be the same as knowing how to please Brad Johnston with  
the correct past tense form?



On Nov 26, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Brad Johnston wrote:

> And you weren't listening to Paul and Brad. Paul wrote, Brad  
> replied that he agrees with what Paul wrote, and then Paul added as  
> below.
>
> But that's no never mind. Consider this. In "The Audacity of Hope",  
> Barack Obama wrote about Michelle, "Two visions of herself were at  
> war with each other -- the desire to be the woman her mother (had  
> been) was, solid, dependable, making a home and always there for  
> her kids; and the desire to excel in her profession, to make her  
> mark on the world and realize all those plans she (had) had on the  
> very first day (that) we met." (From Today's Washington Post.)
>
> (On February 14 last, I wrote to the listserv: "In the first twenty- 
> one pages of "The Audacity of Hope", by Barack Obama, c.2006, the  
> word "had" appears 68 times. Of the total, 16 are used correctly as  
> the past tense of the verb "to have" (11), or in the past perfect  
> (2), or in the subjunctive (2). Of the 52 in error, 5 use "had  
> been"' instead of "was" or "were", 13 insert the word 'had' in  
> front of the wrong form of an irregular verb, and 34 insert the  
> word "had" in front of a past tense verb.)
>
> As for his speaking articulateness, a dozen people have said to me  
> that Obama is a good teleprompter reader, even a great teleprompter  
> reader. Next time he gives a speech on TV, watch his head and eyes  
> go from side to side, like a music teacher's metronome, seldom or  
> never looking straight ahead. I have conceded to the dozen that  
> they have a point. Let's keep a sharp lookout.
>
> Henry Kissinger has a heavy German accent, having come to this  
> country when he was 13 years old, 7 years past the presumed limit  
> for learning another language without keeping the accent of those  
> at the family dinner table. He's hard to listen to but read a  
> transcript of what he says.
>
> .brad.26nov08.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Susan van Druten <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Barack Obama.
>
> But you weren't really listening to Paul.  When he said he didn't  
> want to play best and worst list games, you said you agreed with  
> him.  Clearly, you do not agree with him.  I don't particularly  
> think Obama is a great orator (because politicians are full of  
> b.s.), but since I'd rather listen to him than Henry and since he's  
> kinda in the news right now, he's my choice for greatest political  
> living orator.  As far as verbal skills--and not speeches--go, I  
> think Steven Colbert is very clever.  But he's playing the role of  
> a sophist.  I also like Mark Twain and George Orwell and H.L. Mencken.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> On Nov 25, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Brad Johnston wrote:
>
>> Whadaya talking about? There are Best and Worst lists published  
>> every day. Netflix sends you a DVD movie and asks you to grade it  
>> one to five: hated it, didn't like it, liked it, liked it a lot,  
>> loved it. Then their computer tells you what it thinks you'll  
>> grade a movie you haven't seen yet.
>>
>> Every speech I ever gave I had a critic sitting in the back - a  
>> speech professor if I could find one.
>>
>> You don't like my choice, tell us what yours is.
>>
>> Don't you pay attention to what people write and how they write  
>> it? If you do, you must think some are better than others. Henry's  
>> going to be tough to beat but go ahead and try it. Take a shot.
>>
>> Anyone else want to take a shot and let Paul hunker down? It's not  
>> Hemingway and it's not George Bush and it's not Mary Higgins  
>> Clark. Who is it? Who's really got a handle on our language?
>>
>> C'mon, gang. Who's really good at it?
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Paul E. Doniger <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> If you agreed with everything I said, then you wouldn't ask such a  
>> question. I see no value in debating who is or who isn't a better  
>> user of the English language than Henry Kissinger. I'd rather just  
>> dwell joyfully in good language when I come across it and not make  
>> comparisons.
>>
>
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>


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