Yes, I believe I do agree with Dr. Wright's critique. I just wish it was aimed at something like Emile rather than progressives. In regard to your final question, I suppose the presentation I gave for ATEG at the most recent NCTE conference might provide an answer. I described my use of the descriptive vocabulary provided by grammar to define voice and rhetorical style. Most of my students are law-fearing writers: they write grammatically sound prose which no one I know would wish to read. So, for example, I might distribute a passage written by Orwell from which I have removed all the punctuation. They must then punctuate it and explain their choices. Inevitably, they produce a range of solutions, most of which would pass editorial scrutiny. We then compare their solutions to Orwell's own. The exercise usually produces an interesting discussion about the artistic deployment of punctuation, one which they can only understand and articulate by using grammatical terms. At this point they now understand my definition for an A grade on writing mechanics: "no errors of grammar, spelling, capitalization; transgressions artistically defensible." In order to bend or break the rules of standard grammar as they write their own papers, in other words, they need to identify the rules they are bending or breaking and identify an explicitly rhetorical intention for doing so. Our classroom exercises inform their practice and their defense of their practice. I suppose the encouragement to bend rules would conform to a definition of a progressive approach; it certainly feels different and progressive to them. And, as I think you'd agree, it is not a romantic approach. Michael Dee >Michael, > I think the fact that Edmond is writing us from England ought to >get him at least mildly off the hook. > The progressive movement in American politics has a very proud >history, especially in the early twentieth century. I'm not sure >many Americans understand that, let alone someone from another >country. > Am I right that you agree with Edmond in other ways? > Can you give us a description of what a true progressive would say >in relation to things like "craft," "discipline", and "grammar"? > >Craig > >Michael Dee wrote: >>In my lifetime, progressive causes have been routinely disparaged >>by the logic evident in Dr. Wright's definition: renounce the >>general term (and its proponents) by identifying it with an >>obviously flawed subcategory or remote relative. If you doubt the >>efficacy of this rhetorical strategy, consider the fate of >>"liberal." Believe me, my rage at the predominance of conservative >>politics in this country can easily match Dr. Wright's passionate >>criticism of romantic idealism. Not only that: I would agree with >>the criticism, particularly as it applies to educational principles >>and practices. And for that very reason I object to casting >>progressives as childish idealists. >> >>More passion available upon request. >> >>Michael Dee >> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >>interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>and select "Join or leave the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >and select "Join or leave the list" > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/