I very much enjoyed the discussion about
whether ‘that’ can be a pronoun in relative clauses. I don’t
believe I ever really thought about it before. I have just assumed that it
is a pronoun, because that is what I
was taught, but also because, to me,
it seems to function as one. But that is not what I’m writing
about. In one of the posts, which I
can’t find now, somebody
mentioned constructions such as ‘just try and stop me.’ When
my students use this structure, I
usually change it to ‘…try to stop me.’ From the brief
mention, though, it sounds like there might be a different explanation
in which it is not an error. Does anyone care to elucidate?
Thanks in advance!
Janet Castilleja
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Spruiell, William C
Sent: Monday,
February 02, 2009 10:10 AM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Developmental phases
of grammar knowledge
If I remember
correctly, children start being able
to process passives at around the same time they start demonstrating the
ability to recognize that someone is deliberately not telling the truth, which is kind of interesting.
With some of the
more complex constructions,
particularly low-frequency ones like absolutes,
I think it’s worth asking whether we’re seeing an actual developmental effect,
or (instead) simply the result of lack of exposure. It’s one thing
to say we don’t see students producing these,
it’s another to say they can’t.
They certainly don’t hear absolute phrases much in everyday speech, and there are lots of options one can use instead
of an absolute (I’m not counting the Being
that… that native Michiganders seem to use a lot; I suspect
it’s just a periphrastic conjunction).
Bill Spruiell
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Myers, Marshall
Sent: Monday,
February 02, 2009 9:49 AM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Developmental phases
of grammar knowledge
Scott,
I believe passive voice is one of those
constructions, too.
Children at 5 or below see the grammatical
subject as the actor---which makes some sense considering the nature of most English
syntax.
Marshall
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Scott Woods
Sent: Sunday,
February 01, 2009 11:53 PM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Developmental phases of
grammar knowledge
I have read that some constructions do not appear in
student writing until they are at the right age. I do not recall where
I read this, but it seems to go
against my experience,
specifically, as I recall, the claim that absolute phrases do not show
up until students are around 16. Has anyone else read anything
like this? Does anyone have any references for this? Is this a
widespread idea?
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