To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"Craig,
Aren’t you, below, making an argument that students should have been taught (AND LEARNED) some things (like the ability to identify verbs) before they got to your course?
Ed V.
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Recognition of passives
Ed, Ed, Karl,
My approach to teaching passives is a little different in my grammar class than it is in my writing classes. In both, I usually start with the idea of "subject function" from functional grammar. There are three subject functions to correspond with the three major metafunctions--grammatical subject (the usual idea of subject), actor (doer of the deed or whatever is verb appropriate), and theme (stepping-off point for the message structure of the clause). I often use the sentence in my book: "A drunk driver killed my dog just before Christmas." In this version, all three functions are conflated. We play around with versions that split the functions. "My dog was killed by a drunk driver just before Christmas." "Just before Christmas, my dog was killed by a drunk driver." Each of these represents the same happening in the world, but construes it differently and we discuss that. So we come at it with a functional orientation, even playing around with sentences like "The driver who killed my dog just before Christmas was drunk" or "The dog the drunk driver killed just before Christmas was mine." These are approached from the start as functional variations.
I don't do follow-up testing in my writing classes. Maybe I should. In quizzes and tests in my grammar class, they need to identify each of these functions within single clause sentences. I also ask them to convert active sentences into their passive versions. I have given these tests over a number of years and can say that these are pretty much give away points, among the easiest tasks, a good way to balance out the loss of points on more complicated tasks.
At the end of the semester, we do look at real world texts, and the passive is at least a working concept for them, even though they may not identify every passive that shows up. (Someone in the class probably will.)
It's hard, of course, to cover everything in a single semester and still have time to put it to work. I suspect, though, that it is not often taught in a way that seems to matter, and students probably know they won't be held accountable. Everything changes when learning grammar is the course's main goal.
Craig
Karl Hagen wrote:Ed,That's an interesting experiment.Would you be able to share with us more details about the items you used totest the students' understanding, such as their wording, and how the teachersactually attempted to introduce the passive during the year? (I would also beinterested in the summary statistics, but that's probably too far off thepurposes of the list.)Regards,KarlEdgar Schuster wrote:A couple of decades ago in September, I tested an entire tenth gradeclass on their ability to recognize passives---nearly 500 students inall, at a reasonably good suburban Philadelphia high school. I usedfive multiple choice questions with four possible answers for each. (Ibelieve that means that a chance score would have been 25 percent.) InSeptember, the result was 50.0 percent correct. Recognition of thepassive was supposed to be a "Mastery" objective for tenth gradeEnglish. I tested the same students at the end of the year in June.The result was 51.2 percent correct. The "gain" was not statisticallysignificant.At a later time, teaching junior and senior college business majors atPenn State, it was clear to me that they could not recognize passives.I conclude by quoting Ed Vavra, When and how (and we might add, "bywhom?") can passives be effectively taught?Ed SchusterOn Feb 4, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Edward Vavra wrote:Craig,First, the passives. Rarely, I think, do we teach students to USEconstructions. They do so naturally. I'm amused to see your questionfollowed by Scott's, to which I'll try to reply separately. Rememberthat I'm working in what I believe to be the current reality--moststudents are unable to identify finite verbs. If they cannot recognizethem in the first place, what good does it do to "teach" passivevoice. KISS introduces passives, as a concept to be learned, in fifthgrade, primarily with the objective that students learn to recognizepassive voice. Why? Because some teachers will tell students never touse passives (silly, but that is currently taught), and someinstructors will tell students to use passive voice. Unless studentscan recognize passives when they see them, either "direction" ismeaningless. It's my hope to include exploratory exercises on passives(uses and abuses) in the upper grades. Most of the"Practice/Application" sections in the upper KISS grades have slotsfor an exercise on passives. See:http://home.pct.edu/~evavra/kiss/wb/LPlans/G10_WB1.htm#Practice_1Thus we agree, passives are "important to discourse decisions." Wherewe may disagree is when and how they can effectively be taught.I don't understand how you can think that natural language developmentcan't occur without instruction. Isn't it obvious that the sentencesof older students are more complicated, especially in terms ofembeddings, than the sentences of younger students? Thus, for me, thequestion is the purpose of instruction. I'd say that it is to helpstudents better understand how language works. In other words, theability to analyze sentences enables students to discuss (and thusunderstand) how passives, for example, work. Or how deep embedding ofclauses may cause problems for readers. True, some people argueagainst formal instruction in language, believing that it "justhappens." But just because it happens does not mean that it happenseffectively, and just because they are wrong does not mean that wehave to be.Appositives -- as always, I argue that unless students are taught torecognize the things in the first place, instruction will not be veryeffective. Thus in KISS recognition (identification) always comesfirst. But KISS also includes a variety of sentence manipulationexercises and combining exercises in which students are asked tocombine clauses by using an appositive, etc.My response to your last, and most important question, is the entireKISS site. It is more or less laid out at:http://home.pct.edu/~evavra/kiss/wb/LPlans/Overview_Levels.htmEd-----Original Message-----From: Assembly for the Teaching of English GrammarTo join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland select "Join or leave the list"
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