Admittedly I am from an older generation than many on list; however, I did not hear "between you and I" from students above 7th grade--much less from "highly educated people." Then again, most of my contacts lately are either from the Deep South or are very interested in language(s). My sixth-grade English teacher was not a structural linguistic--she went to college in the 30s--however, she led us into understanding phrasal verbs and distinguishing prepositions from particles by the mobility of the particle. I must confess that I had a professor in 1960 with a PhD in Creative Writing who did not know that 'bases' was the plural of 'basis' and I reckon a PhD is considered "highly educated"; however, he was not from the Deep South. Scott Catledge -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:02 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: ATEG Digest - 21 Mar 2009 to 23 Mar 2009 (#2009-64) There are 4 messages totalling 1312 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. I and me questions (2) 2. Phrasal Verb Overview (2) My own take on this is I started hearing "between you and I" from even highly educated people in the 80s. I attributed it to hypercorrection mixed with a lack of grammar instruction that would have cued people to know when to use the objective and when the subjective. It's been in this decade that I've heard the I moving to the indirect object and to the objective of prep and subject of infinitive places when it is a compound and even sometimes when it is not a compound. Edith Wollin - Structural linguists have noted the difference between separable and inseparable phrasal verbs.Separable phrasal verbs have prepositions that can be moved to a position after the object noun phrase (example, "I gave up the game" vs "I gave the game up" or "I gave it up"). Inseparable phrasal verbs have prepositions that cannot be moved (example, "I depend on the income" vs *"I depend the income on" or *"I depend it on"). - As you can see from the above examples, when the object of a separable transitive phrasal verb is a pronoun, the movement of the preposition is obligatory. You would always say "I gave it up" and never *"I gave up it." (I think I would cringe if I heard this avoided with some clunky construction like, "Up it is that I gave it.") In this sense, it is actually *ungrammatical* to NOT end a sentence with a preposition. Hope all the grammar nerds enjoy this as much as I did! Regards, John Alexander Austin, Texas ********************************************************** To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/