I had never considered phrasal verbs taking an object in the way that
prepositional phrases do until Bruce's e-mail.
Bruce, I hope this isn't too general of a request, but could you elaborate
on your second paragraph? I feel like I've almost grasped the concept you're
trying to relay, but I'm missing something. Are you saying that the indirect
object function is not present in this sentence, that it has been omitted?
(And, perhaps, that it would be present if the sentence had the structure,
"Someone/something convinces someone of something for/on behalf of
someone"?) Could you provide an example of what you mean by, "[T]he
dative....appears with the prepositional object of this same sort"?
I think some of my confusion if stemming from some German interference. In
German, "to convince someone of something" would be "jemanden (von etwas)
uberzeugen" (with umlaut on the "u"). The "someone" ("jemanden") is in the
accusative/direct object case, and the "of something" is in the
dative/indirect object case. My understanding of your analysis has the "of
something" as the object of a preposition/phrasal verb but not necessarily
functioning as the indirect object. Have I muddled your intended meaning?
John
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Bruce Despain
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> Patty and Scott,
>
>
>
> I think Patty is on the right track. The noun clause is the object of the
> prepositional verb “convince of” whereas “us” is in the role of direct
> object. Something convinces someone of something. The preposition is
> regularly omitted when its object is a (factive noun) clause.
>
>
>
> What is interesting is that the dative (or benefactive) appears with the
> prepositional object of this same sort. However, the person to whom or for
> whom the particular action of the verb is performed cannot be expressed with
> a factive noun clause, so the confusion does not occur with the loss of the
> preposition. The preposition is regularly omitted when its object is a
> pronoun and/or it is placed before the object of the verb. This, of course,
> is the so-called indirect object, and its surface structure is very similar
> to the former case of an omitted preposition.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Patricia Lafayllve
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:56 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: "convinces us that..."?
>
>
>
> A return question…
>
>
>
> If we take the original sentence down a bit, we have <language convinces
> us>. My eyes read <us> as the direct object, which would then make <that
> a…explanation> the clause that answers the question “What” (as in, what does
> the language convince us). So…why would we take <us> as the indirect
> object?
>
>
>
> -patty
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Scott Woods
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:40 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* "convinces us that..."?
>
>
>
> List,
>
> I have a few questions about the following sentence:
>
> <Poe's language, however, gradually convinces us that a purely rational
> explanation will not suffice, however neatly it fits the external facts. >
>
>
>
> Would you take <us> as the indirect object? Would you take the <that>
> clause after it as the direct object? Is this analogous to <He showed us a
> monkey>? Does <convince> always take a noun clause object when it takes an
> direct object? In <He convinced us>, is <us> now the direct object, that is,
> we were the convinced ones, or is there still an implied clausal direct
> object leaving <us> as an indirect object?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott Woods
>
>
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