Natalie, One strategy I've used with *some* good results involves having students simplify what they're looking at so that they don't have to think about as much material at once. For example, if they've spotted a restrictive relative, they use some kind of small placeholder symbol and just substitute it in, attaching it to the noun it modifies. I'll use "#": James Bunley, a Washington attorney#, says the complexity of Next-Gen is one of the reasons#. Similarly, for noun clauses, they can try switching in a placeholder and expanding it on a separate line (I ask them to go through and do the "something test" first; the Xes and Ys just stand for different somethings): Bjorn said that Brunnhild was asking where her alpenhorn was. --> Bjorn said X X = Brunnhild was asking Y Y = where her alpenhorn was. Sincerely, Bill Spruiell -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Natalie Gerber Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 2:30 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: question on a relative clause Beth and Dick, Thanks very much. That is what I meant to say. The entire noun phrase, including the restrictive relative clause, is an appositive. I wanted to double check because this example just about sent my college-level grammar class reeling today. If anyone has helpful cues or resources for simplifying relative clauses and their appearance within appositives for students (I've been using Longman, Graeme Kennedy, and OWL, along with examples from newspapers such as this one), please let me know. Natalie -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Beth Young Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 2:15 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: question on a relative clause That's pretty much what I would say, except that I'd call the whole thing [a Washington attorney who served as the last Transportation secretary in the Reagan administration in 1987-89] an appositive and say that the appositive had a restrictive relative clause embedded in it. i.e., this particular appositive = determiner + noun + NOUN HEADWORD + relative clause. Maybe that's what you were saying, Beth Dr. Beth Rapp Young http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~byoung University of Central Florida Reach for the Stars >>> Natalie Gerber <[log in to unmask]> 4/23/2009 2:06 PM >>> Dear all, May I ask for your help parsing the relative clause in the following example? James Bunley, a Washington attorney who served as the last Transportation secretary in the Reagan administration in 1987089, says the complexity of Next-Gen is one of the reasons the new system hasn't gained funding. I analyze this example as a restrictive relative clause specifying which Washington attorney; i.e., a restrictive relative clause modifying an appositive, which itself is a nonrestrictive element modifying the proper noun James Bunley. Is this correct? Thanks very much, Natalie ____________________ Natalie Gerber, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of English SUNY Fredonia ph. (716) 673-3855 fax (716) 673-4661 [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/