Beth, Good point. Our problem is that "tried my best" is an idiomatic phrase, which limits internal analysis. All of these are possible: I tried to succeed. I attempted to succeed. I endeavored to succeed. But "my best" only works with "tried": I tried my best to succeed. * I attempted my best to succeed. * I endeavored my best to succeed. Interestingly, it is also possible to use "tried my best" in a different, * non*idiomatic way, where "my best" *is* the direct object: First I tried a half-hearted effort, but it didn't work, so I tried my best, and that worked. Unlike the other uses, here "my best" is *what *was tried, not *how *something was tried. Dick On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Beth Young <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi Dick, > > Interesting! I find your reasoning very persuasive. > > Still . . . "their best" isn't at all moveable. And there are lots of > examples of "x gave y their best," in which "their best" is a direct object. > > Could it be that our intuition about how fixed an entity "their best" is? > i.e., if you think of "their best" as a discrete, identifiable effort, like > a poem or a chocolate souffle, then the phrase seems nominal and "to express > what love means to them" seems adverbial. But if you think of "their best" > as a kind of move in a certain direction (like moving towards the > horizon--you never arrive), then "to express what love means to them" seems > more nominal and "their best" more adverbial. > > (I'm a bit boggled to hear myself proposing that the distinction between > nominal/adverbial can be ambiguous.) > > Beth > > >>> Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> 4/30/2009 6:40 PM >>> > Beth, > > Re: "Artists of all kinds have tried their best to express what love means > to them." > > The phrase "to express what love means to them" is certainly an infinitive > phrase, but is it adverbial or nominal? > > - I tried a poem to express my love. > This infinitive phrase is adverbial, indicating why I tried the > poem. > - I tried to express my love. > This infinitive phrase is nominal, the direct object of "tried." > > I opt for nominal in our sentence. I think "their best" is an adverbial, > not > the direct object, since it answers the question "Tried how?" rather than > "Tried what?" On the other hand, "to express what love means to them" can > answer the question "Tried what?" so I'd say it is the direct object. > > Dick > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Beth Young <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > "Artists of all kinds have tried their best to express what love means > to > > them." > > > > Here's my take: "to express what love means to them" is an adverbial > > infinitive phrase. > > > > 1. You can move it around: To express what love means to them, artists > of > > all kinds have tried their best. > > > > 2. It answers the question "why" or "in what manner" the verb happens. > > Artists of all kinds have tried their best. Why? "to express what love > > means to them." > > > > Without that adverbial infinitive phrase, it's easier to see that the > main > > sentence is transitive: THEY have tried SOMETHING. > > > > "Their best" is a noun phrase/direct object. I don't have a problem with > > "best" functioning as a noun--contrast with "their happy" which clearly > > doesn't work. > > > > To make the whole sentence passive would be clunky, but it is doable: > > > > "To express what love means to them, their best has been tried (by > artists > > of all kinds)." > > > > This passive sentence is bothersome, not so much because of the passive > > voice, but because we don't know who "them" and "their" refers to until > we > > get to the end. I could imagine writing this sort of passage: > > > > Their best has been tried. (And it still wasn't good enough.) > > > > That's how I see it, anyway. Thanks for the distraction from paper > > grading. > > > > Beth > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/