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Herb, I know you've studied clitics extensively; is there any evidence of
the English plural marker (-s) moving away from affix status and toward
clitic status?

I ask this because in actual usage, I hear "mother-in-laws" much more often
than I hear "mothers-in-law" for the plural.

As a teacher I offer the wisdom of bowing to style guides, but as a linguist
I get to have more fun and find out what *actually* happens in language. In
this case, the linguist in me is more intrigued than the teacher.

John Alexander

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Works only if both husbands have remarried.  Otherwise aren't both
> mothers-in-law your mother.  Could her taste in clothes really be that bad?
>  And so soon after Mother's Day.
>
> Welcome to the list!
>
> Herb
>
> Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
> Emeritus Professor of English
> Ball State University
> Muncie, IN  47306
> [log in to unmask]
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ingerman, Prudence (INGERMAN) [
> [log in to unmask]]
> Sent: May 12, 2009 1:05 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: a grammar question
>
> Alas, but can you really do this?  Both my first and second husband's
> mothers-in-law's tastes in clothing were abominable.  What about singular of
> taste?  Guess not, but it sounds better.
>
> Prudence
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Larry Beason
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:53 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: a grammar question
>
> But what's really fun is to pluralize such nouns AND show possession.  I'm
> just tossing this out for possible correction, but my recollection is that
> you pluralize the 'major noun' in such as phrase, such as 'mothers in law.'
>
> Yet how does one show possession now (besides just recasting the whole durn
> sentence to avoid the awkwardness)?
>
> Would it be 'mothers in law's'? if we abide by the possession guideline
> separately from the pluralization guideline for this structure?
>
> argh
>
> Larry
>
> Larry Beason
> Associate Professor & Composition Director
> Dept. of English, 240 HUMB
> Univ. of South Alabama
> Mobile AL 36688
> (251) 460-7861
> >>> Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> 05/12/09 10:40 AM >>>
> Oops. I meant possessive marker, not plural marker.
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > You were right. It is* brother-in-law's*. The apostrophe-s plural marker
> > is appended to the end of the noun phrase, even if the noun is not the
> last
> > word:
> >
> > the attorney-at-law's ethics
> > the Queen of England's horses
> > Ben and Jerry's new flavor
> > my son the doctor's fancy-schmancy office
> > the jerk who lives upstairs's obnoxious music
> >
> > Dick
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Ingerman, Prudence (INGERMAN) <
> > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> I am delighted to join this group of grammar gurus.
> >>
> >>
> >> I have a brother-in-law.  I have two brothers-in-law.    My elder
> >> brother-in-law's son is also a doctor.
> >>
> >> My sister is an attorney-at-law.   Her three siblings are also
> >> attorneys-at-law.  The attorney-at-law's office is on the 3rd floor.
> >>
> >> Is there a rule about this?   That's the question.  Why is it incorrect
> to
> >> say - the attorney's-at -law office.  What is special about that
> tacked-on
> >> prepositional phrase?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your thoughts.
> >>
> >> Prudence Ingerman - IEP Juniata College
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of R. Michael Medley (GLS)
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:45 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: how confidential is ATEG?
> >>
> >> I recently received a post on another listserv where a grammar question
> >> was being discussed.  Since there is a wide range of language teaching
> >> issues discussed on that listserv, I posted a message to other members
> >> that if they really love grammar and would like to participate in some
> >> excellent dicussion of grammar issues, they might subscribe to the ATEG
> >> list.  One of them accepted this invitation, subscribed, and got a
> welcome
> >> message with the following lines included:
> >>
> >> "IMPORTANT: This list is confidential. You should not publicly mention
> its
> >> existence."
> >>
> >> Have I broken a rule in recommending the ATEG list to others?
> >>
> >> R. Michael Medley,Ph.D.
> >> Eastern Mennonite University, Harrisonburg, VA 22802
> >> [log in to unmask]  (540) 432-4051
> >>
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