I agree that it's not a problem for Zwicky's description (which, thanks to Herb, I now have a clearer picture of), but sentences--- indeed, paragraphs---beginning with FANBOYS connectives are quite a problem for a great many English teachers, even though as Craig pointed out earlier, college handbooks have never banned the practice. Warriner neither approved nor disapproved, but a recent Warriner clone warns against the practice in "formal writing." Ed On May 14, 2009, at 9:18 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote: > I don't think a for-initial fragment where "for" means "because" > would be a problem for Zwicky's description, precisely because it's > a fragment and so would be interpretable as being the second of two > clauses, the first being ellipted. > > Herb > > Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D. > Emeritus Professor of English > Ball State University > Muncie, IN 47306 > [log in to unmask] > ________________________________________ > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask] > ] On Behalf Of Edgar Schuster [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: May 14, 2009 2:22 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Equivalent expressions > > Ah, I suppose Arnold and I are talking about two different things. > Let me give an example from Oates of what I am talking about, an > example that has many interesting features---fragments especially--- > besides the initial "for," which starts not only a sentence but also a > new paragraph. > > The "Weidel house," it would be called for years. The Weidel > property." As if the very land---which the family had not owned in > any case, but only rented, partly with county-welfare support---were > somehow imprinted with that name, a man's identity. Or infamy. > For tales were told of the father who drank, beat and terrorized > his > family . . . . > > Ed > > On May 14, 2009, at 2:02 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote: > >> Ed, >> >> I assume you mean the coordinate clause introduced by "for" comes >> before the clause that it's coordinate with. I don't have a copy of >> Oates and Atwan. You might send these examples to Arnold. He would >> find them interesting. >> >> Herb >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask] >> ] On Behalf Of Edgar Schuster >> Sent: 2009-05-14 12:42 >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: Equivalent expressions >> >> Herb, >> I read the Zwicky article, and thanks for it, but I am puzzled by >> his >> stance that "for" cannot be used sentence initially. (I hope I >> haven't misunderstood what he is saying.) Joyce Carol Oates uses >> "for" initially six times in her 1995 essay, "They All Just Went >> Away." Susan Sontag uses the same word initially five times in her >> "Notes on 'Camp'." >> And this is not a new phenomenon. In "The Handicapped" (1911) >> "for" >> is used by Randolph Bourne in sentence initial position 16 times, I >> believe. It's also used, though much more rarely, by several other >> writers. >> (All these essays may be found in "The Best American Essays of the >> Century" by Oates and Atwan.) >> >> Ed S >> >> On May 14, 2009, at 11:58 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote: >> >>> English has a lot of equivalent expressions that attract the >>> attention of writing teachers and grammarians. Consider because/ >>> for, however/but, which/that, much/a lot, and others you can >>> probably come up with yourself. Here's a link (http://arnoldzwicky.wordpress.com/2008/12/28/forbecause/ >>> ) to an extraordinarily lucid and insightful posting on the topic by >>> that extraordinarily lucid and insightful grammarian Arnold Zwicky. >>> Follow the internal links, and you'll see a subtle, perceptive, and >>> witty mind at work. >>> >>> Enjoy! >>> >>> Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D. >>> Emeritus Professor of English >>> Ball State University >>> Muncie, IN 47306 >>> [log in to unmask] >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >>> interface at: >>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>> and select "Join or leave the list" >>> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/