Herb,
 
I wasn't clear.  Currently, for seventh grade English, I teach four groups of students for a total of 112 students.  I meet with each group five times each week.  I think that I could get better results by meeting with all the groups together on some days and with each group separately on others. This would reduce total student contact hours for me, but not for them.  With 28 total contact hours per week next year (I teach other classes as well), I would benefit from reducing my contact load and spending that time planning, developing lessons, and responding to writing.  
 
Scott

--- On Sun, 5/31/09, STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


From: STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Class size ATEG Digest - 28 May 2009 to 29 May 2009 - Special issue (#2009-127)
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 1:21 PM








Scott,
 
I’m not join this debate because I don’t know the research on either side, but meeting one group of 112 students twice a week rather than four groups of 28 students twice a week for each group strikes me as simply a different way of handling the same student-teacher ratio.  Meeting four groups of 112 students twice a week for each group seems a more apt contrast.  Or you could lower that to four groups of 42 or 56 students.  The result would be much less writing and much less response to writing.
 
Herb
 

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Woods
Sent: 2009-05-31 11:11
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Class size ATEG Digest - 28 May 2009 to 29 May 2009 - Special issue (#2009-127)
 





Paul,

 

I would be interested in seeing research that shows a strong link between reducing class size and increasing performance. The research I have seen strongly suggests that the most important factor in improving student performance is changing what teachers do.  Reducing class size can reduce the amount of disruption in a class, but there is little research base (that I have seen) to suggest that if we reduced the size of every class in the country to 15 students that much would change in what students know and can do.  

 

As an English teacher, I would prefer having fewer total students, but I could probably teach as well if, at least twice a week, I had all 112 of my students in a lecture hall together.  That would give me eight hours of extra time to respond thoughtfully to their writing. 

 

Scott Woods

BASIS Scottsdale

 


--- On Fri, 5/29/09, Paul E. Doniger <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


From: Paul E. Doniger [log in to unmask]





Yes! And all research in education that I've ever seen agrees that class size is a vital component in successful learning.  This is especially important to the writing classroom. 

 

Paul E. Doniger
 
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction" (_Twelfth Night_ 3.4.127-128). 

 

 




From: Scott <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:30:56 PM
Subject: Re: Class size ATEG Digest - 28 May 2009 to 29 May 2009 - Special issue (#2009-127)

I too am normally reluctant to classify a remark as stupid; however,
the list member who indicated that class size was irrelevant in teaching
writing must have been brought up by a school board member.  My alma mater,
MSC, whose regular Freshman English program I have praised highly, had
a secondary program in basic writing skills for those who had failed the
English placement exam.  I had scored a 100 in the exam but my advisor had
accidentally put my test in the "Dummy English" pile; therefore, I had to
take a non-credit English class on the same semester as my first Freshman
English class.  My advisor apologized to me later but I replied that I had
learned more in Dummy English than in regular English because the class size
was quite small--around ten students--and we wrote a theme each day instead
of one a week.  The professor in the Dummy Class was also an excellent
teacher.

Having taught across the academic curriculum, I can aver that, in my
experience, class size is more important in English composition than in any
other academic class, including mathematics and foreign languages.

N. Scott Catledge, PhD/STD
Professor Emeritus

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