Oh I am so enjoying this.  Here is another which has kept my awake at night.

How many children do you have?   I have two.  ( now to be referred to as A)

Why do you work?      I have to. ( B)

  In A,  the stress is clearly on the word two.   In B, the stress is  on the auxiliary verb.
 My question is this, why is the V in "have two" pronounced fully when it is not in the stressed word, and why is the V in the verb "have to" pronounced as an F when it is clearly stressed.  I realize this is a pronunciation problem but I am sure it is linked to grammar.    I think somehow the omission or understood verb ( work) is related to the reduced pronunciation but I am not sure how.

Thanks for thinking,

Prudence

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: a grammar question

These are tricky.   If we treat "mother-in-law" as a phrasal compound, then the -s plural would go on the head noun as a suffix.  If we say "mother-in-laws" as a plural then either we're attaching plural -s to a phrase, making it a clitic, or we're treating the compound as a noun stem, in which case -s is a suffix.  I lean towards the latter since these phrasal compounds tend to become stems over time.  The genitive plural "mothers-in-law's" of recent polygamous fame, bears out the former analysis, with the plural suffix on "mother" and the genitive clitic -s on the phrasal compound.  Other examples of phrasal compounds becoming stems would be "nice" < Latin nescius "foolish, ignorant" and "atonement" < at+ (one + ment).  "onement" goes back to the 14th c., "atonement" to the early 16th, and the backformation "atone" to the mid 16th.

Complicating the question of what the -s is is the fact that we generally can't pluralize nouns within a compound noun, just the whole compound, so we can't say "bookskeeper" but rather "bookkeepers."  That's what led me, in a paper that's taking its time getting published, to argue that the -s in sportsman, helmsman, gameskeeper, etc. is a derivational affix, not an inflectional affix.  Derivational affixes can occur within compounds.  Inflectional affixes cannot.

Herb

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Dews-Alexander
Sent: 2009-05-12 14:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: a grammar question

Herb, I know you've studied clitics extensively; is there any evidence of the English plural marker (-s) moving away from affix status and toward clitic status?

I ask this because in actual usage, I hear "mother-in-laws" much more often than I hear "mothers-in-law" for the plural.

As a teacher I offer the wisdom of bowing to style guides, but as a linguist I get to have more fun and find out what actually happens in language. In this case, the linguist in me is more intrigued than the teacher.

John Alexander
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Works only if both husbands have remarried.  Otherwise aren't both mothers-in-law your mother.  Could her taste in clothes really be that bad?  And so soon after Mother's Day.

Welcome to the list!

Herb

Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
Emeritus Professor of English
Ball State University
Muncie, IN  47306
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