The rule that commas and periods always go inside quotation marks is  
and has been for decades in the style manual of the US Government  
Printing Office.  I recall reading it sometime in the mid-seventies.

Ed S

On Oct 29, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Craig Hancock wrote:

> Does the rule change when using quotation marks to designate words  
> as words or for titles? In other words, is it only for actual  
> quotations? Has anyone seen a clear articulation of that?
>
> "The Negro Speaks of Rivers", "Harlem", and "Mother to Son" are  
> frequently anthologized Langston Hughes poems.
>
> "Beat", over the years, has taken on meanings beyond the core  
> meaning of repeatedly striking.
>
> Are those considered correct?
>
> Craig
>
> Beth Young wrote:
>>
>> Chiming in late . . .  It's not just the NYT that cares about  
>> punctuation; many teachers will object to nonstandard punctuation  
>> of " and ,/.
>>
>> So I tell my students they have choices:
>>
>> 1. Punctuate the "logical" way and they'll probably be fine in  
>> Canada, UK, etc. but not in the US for those who know the other  
>> rule.  They'll need to think about their punctuation each time.   
>> They'll risk looking uneducated to audiences that know the US rule.
>>
>> 2. Punctuate according to the US rule and they'll be fine for any  
>> US audience that knows the rule, and the rule requires less thought  
>> (punctuating ./, and " is always the same; they'll only need to  
>> think about other punctuation marks).
>>
>> I tell them to follow the US rule in my class because "house style"  
>> for our comp program = US rules.  They can choose to do whatever  
>> they want, though, if they don't mind the consequences.  I myself  
>> have been known to deliberately break rules I thought were  
>> silly . . . though as I grow older, breaking rules to make a point  
>> grows less attractive.  (I even find myself correcting "less" to  
>> "fewer" sometimes.  Andy-Rooney-ville, here I come.)
>>
>> I too would like to know if the typesetter story is correct.  I  
>> share the story with my students as possibly apocryphal because it  
>> helps them remember the US rule.
>>
>> Beth
>>
>>
>>>>> Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> 10/24/2009 10:56 PM >>>
>>>>>
>>
>> Good point, DD.
>>
>> Or, tell the little dears to learn it the logical, reasonable,  
>> sensible way and then if they ever want to sell an article to the  
>> New York Times, they'll have three choices.
>>
>> Slog through the NYT Style Book and make their work comply.
>>
>> Send it in and hope the NYT copy editor will change it to suit.
>>
>> If it comes up, defend it as "style and preference".
>>
>> (You would not believe the number of authors who have defended bad  
>> grammar to me based on "style and preference", e.g., Stuart Woods  
>> defending, "Attila had been killed for fifty dollars" (without  
>> context, Herb).
>>
>> ~~~~
>>
>> DD Farms <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Because you write to the style book's conventions, or you don't get  
>> published?
>>
>> ~~~~
>>
>> Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Good Grief, Good Grammar, by Dianna Booher, c.1988.
>>
>> page 133: "Rules about quotation marks used in conjunction with  
>> commas and periods often bring resistance because they are  
>> illogical. Never mind, just learn them. Place commas and periods  
>> inside closing quotation marks -- regardless of meaning."
>>
>> Nonsense. It is easy, logical, and meaningful to put quotation  
>> marks where they belong, at both ends of a quotation. Why would  
>> anyone struggle to teach it otherwise?
>>
>> .brad.sat.24oct09.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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