The rule that commas and periods always go inside quotation marks is and has been for decades in the style manual of the US Government Printing Office. I recall reading it sometime in the mid-seventies. Ed S On Oct 29, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Craig Hancock wrote: > Does the rule change when using quotation marks to designate words > as words or for titles? In other words, is it only for actual > quotations? Has anyone seen a clear articulation of that? > > "The Negro Speaks of Rivers", "Harlem", and "Mother to Son" are > frequently anthologized Langston Hughes poems. > > "Beat", over the years, has taken on meanings beyond the core > meaning of repeatedly striking. > > Are those considered correct? > > Craig > > Beth Young wrote: >> >> Chiming in late . . . It's not just the NYT that cares about >> punctuation; many teachers will object to nonstandard punctuation >> of " and ,/. >> >> So I tell my students they have choices: >> >> 1. Punctuate the "logical" way and they'll probably be fine in >> Canada, UK, etc. but not in the US for those who know the other >> rule. They'll need to think about their punctuation each time. >> They'll risk looking uneducated to audiences that know the US rule. >> >> 2. Punctuate according to the US rule and they'll be fine for any >> US audience that knows the rule, and the rule requires less thought >> (punctuating ./, and " is always the same; they'll only need to >> think about other punctuation marks). >> >> I tell them to follow the US rule in my class because "house style" >> for our comp program = US rules. They can choose to do whatever >> they want, though, if they don't mind the consequences. I myself >> have been known to deliberately break rules I thought were >> silly . . . though as I grow older, breaking rules to make a point >> grows less attractive. (I even find myself correcting "less" to >> "fewer" sometimes. Andy-Rooney-ville, here I come.) >> >> I too would like to know if the typesetter story is correct. I >> share the story with my students as possibly apocryphal because it >> helps them remember the US rule. >> >> Beth >> >> >>>>> Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> 10/24/2009 10:56 PM >>> >>>>> >> >> Good point, DD. >> >> Or, tell the little dears to learn it the logical, reasonable, >> sensible way and then if they ever want to sell an article to the >> New York Times, they'll have three choices. >> >> Slog through the NYT Style Book and make their work comply. >> >> Send it in and hope the NYT copy editor will change it to suit. >> >> If it comes up, defend it as "style and preference". >> >> (You would not believe the number of authors who have defended bad >> grammar to me based on "style and preference", e.g., Stuart Woods >> defending, "Attila had been killed for fifty dollars" (without >> context, Herb). >> >> ~~~~ >> >> DD Farms <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> Because you write to the style book's conventions, or you don't get >> published? >> >> ~~~~ >> >> Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> Good Grief, Good Grammar, by Dianna Booher, c.1988. >> >> page 133: "Rules about quotation marks used in conjunction with >> commas and periods often bring resistance because they are >> illogical. Never mind, just learn them. Place commas and periods >> inside closing quotation marks -- regardless of meaning." >> >> Nonsense. It is easy, logical, and meaningful to put quotation >> marks where they belong, at both ends of a quotation. Why would >> anyone struggle to teach it otherwise? >> >> .brad.sat.24oct09. >> >> >> >> >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> >> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and > select "Join or leave the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/