Oops.. curmudgeonette…
sorry, y’all!
Tina Terry - ELL Teacher
Room AUD-1 at PHS
Phone: PHS: 928-474-2233, ext. #2548
Cell phone: 928-595-0528
"To appreciate nonsense requires a
serious interest in life." - Humorist & Illustrator Gelett Burgess
(1866-1951)
"For myself - I am an optimist; it
does not seem to be much use being anything else." (Sir Winston S.
Churchill, speech at the Lord Mayor's banquest, London, Nov. 9, 1954.)
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From:
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010
4:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Herb's remote past,
continued
OK
– fair warning… I’m going to go (my own term) “all
Gordian Knot” on this issue:
I
think the term “remote past” appears to be essentially what
attorneys – those notorious constructors of incomprehensible documents in
English that no one can decipher except (allegedly) them - call a “term
of art.” It could perhaps provide an informal term some might find useful
to describe historic events (although the adjective “remote,” in
and of itself, is entirely subjective, and would thus have to be defined as
“remote” specifically relevant to a specific event in order to have
any historic chronological meaning at all.)
However,
to me, an English teacher, “remote past” appears to be an
arbitrarily made-up, vague and wholly unsatisfactory phantom verb tense that
can neither augment nor supplant any of the classic English verb tenses one
uses (and teaches others to use) to describe various events that transpired in
the past, are transpiring in the present, or will transpire in the future.
These verb tenses are, and have been for decades, classically defined and
accepted, and, IMHO, adequately cover all time frames.
Here
are some resources re: English verb tenses that I use for my students:
http://esl.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201a.htm
http://esl.about.com/od/englishgrammar/a/tense_resource.htm
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/verbtenseintro.html
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/simplepresent.html
http://www.eslteachersboard.com/pdf/Verb-Tenses3.gif
As
for “remote past,” it reminds me again of attorneys (my husband and
I have worked with several on writing briefs), who might refer to a poorly
written law as null and void due to vagueness. See: http://law.jrank.org/pages/11152/Void-Vagueness-Doctrine.html
I’ve
been trying to follow this discussion about this alleged “remote
past” verb tense and I truly don’t see to what end or for what
purpose such a term is even being suggested or promoted… perhaps
I’m missing something, and/or perhaps I’m simply an intransigent
and incorrigible curmudeonette, but such a debate seems not to be a bona fide
grammatical one, but rather akin to a religious argument, sort of like the
medieval one concerning many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
But
then maybe I’m missing something WAY too esoteric for a mere high-school/middle-school
English teacher… but honestly, I think not.
BTW, I
very much like the term “jousting with phantoms” to describe this
exercise.
Tina Terry - ELL Teacher
Room AUD-1 at PHS
Phone: PHS: 928-474-2233, ext. #2548
Cell phone: 928-595-0528
"To appreciate nonsense requires a
serious interest in life." - Humorist & Illustrator Gelett Burgess
(1866-1951)
"For myself - I am an optimist; it
does not seem to be much use being anything else." (Sir Winston S.
Churchill, speech at the Lord Mayor's banquest, London, Nov. 9, 1954.)
THIS ELECTRONIC MESSAGE, INCLUDING ANY ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTS, IS
CONFIDENTIAL, intended for the sole use of the addressee(s), and may contain
information that is privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are neither the intended recipient nor responsible for delivering the
message to the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination,
distribution, copying or the taking of any action in reliance upon the message
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
From:
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010
1:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Herb's remote past,
continued
|
Brad wrote: Please tell me what 'remote past' means
to you and how it works. And, importantly, illustrate it, if you please. .brhad.26feb10. When you use the
words 'remote past', what do you mean? What is it? By those two words,
'remote past', do you mean 'past perfect? Is 'remote past' the same
as 'past perfect'? If it is, you have us jousting with phantoms. .bradagain.
Your statement that people mistakenly use “had”
before past tense verbs, that they change past tense irregular verbs to past
participles after “had,” are not empirically testable
statements. There is no way to know or test the writer’s intentions.
Your statement that those weak verbs after what you claim are incorrect
“had” are functionally past tense depends of a meaning for
“functionally” that is unlike the way any grammarian or linguist
uses the term. It is a subjective judgment of yours that apparently no
one else is able to replicate consistently. Herb From:
|
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