I sent it out in exactly the same form I received it, with no thought that I should revise it. I see now that I should have changed it to an ESL student instead of a Chinese. I'm sorry it did not occur to me to do it. (A black lady recently told me a joke, the butt of which was an "old honkie", which I am. She laughed and I laughed. Nobody makes anything of it until someone makes something of it, as in the case of the my-wife "joke".) A native speaker would not make the mistake but an ESL student could well make it, and that relates to grammar and what we've said about context and what we've said about meeting the needs of the audience, whether written or spoken. I didn't think, and still don't think, the joke was wide of the mark. It's about grammar and that's what this is all about; learning the rules and communicating effectively. Bottom line: shorthand is likely to be dangerous except when communicating with people one knows very well. Grammar teachers do not teach shorthand. They teach what words should be used when we have no way to limit the audience. Non e cosi? --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Robert Yates <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: Robert Yates <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Understanding Plain English To: [log in to unmask] Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 10:38 AM Bob, You are absolutely right that the joke is racist; however, the humor is based on an interesting aspect of grammar that Haj Ross called sloppy identity. Let's use a better example. (1) has two meanings. 1) I love my wife and so does Bill. The first meaning has to do with the elided verb phrase being indexed the same way as the first. 2) I love my wife and Bill loves his wife. However, the second meaning (and the source of the joke) is that the elided verb phrase is EXACTLY the same as the first. 3) I love my wife and Bill loves my wife. The interesting question for those on this list is what does this property of English (and I assume all languages) reveal about the nature of language. This property of language reveals that meaning is not strictly related to grammar, but crucial requires a context (or pragmatic) component. Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri >>> "Miller, Robert" <[log in to unmask]> 02/17/10 7:43 AM >>> Besides finding this incredibly racist (my wife is Chinese), the joke is so old and been done in as many countries as I have/had had had had travelled to in my small amount of globetrotting. How about leaving this to grammar?!? Bob Miller From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:36 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Understanding Plain English Hung Chow calls his boss and says, 'Hey, I no come wok today, I really sick. Got headache, stomach ache and legs hurt. I no come wok.' The boss says, 'You know something, Hung Chow, I really need you today. When I feel sick like you do, I go to my wife and tell her to give me sex. That makes everything better and I go to work. You try that.' Two hours later Hung Chow calls again. 'I do what you say and I feel great. I be at wok soon. You got nice house. To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ________________________________ Spam <https://ssl.ccbcmd.edu:7726/canit/b.php?i=51111976&m=c858df5e3de2&t=201 00216&c=s> Not spam <https://ssl.ccbcmd.edu:7726/canit/b.php?i=51111976&m=c858df5e3de2&t=201 00216&c=n> Forget previous vote <https://ssl.ccbcmd.edu:7726/canit/b.php?i=51111976&m=c858df5e3de2&t=201 00216&c=f> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/