Existentials, like passives, are devices the languages gives us for introducing new nouns into a discourse. Like passives, they need to be used with care, like any other syntactic option, but speakers use both in speech to good effect. I understand the need to help students avoid ambiguity, but the existential/locative ambiguity isn’t all that big a problem. Or have you found otherwise in your students’ writing? Herb From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of William Hillaker Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:05 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Question about expletive "there" Geoff, Granted. I spend a little time with them first looking at the ambiguity that exists between locative and the existential uses of "there" at the beginning of an expression. I do not mean to be hard and fast in taking away their "there" (no pun). I want them to be deliberate in understanding which use the author has in mind, even when they are the author, and it is more difficult to hear that use on paper than it is while conversing. With "because", they cheat with "since"; and "however", is useful instead of "and"; and we like to occasionally split infinitives. Grace and Peace, William R. D. Hillaker, M.Div English The Classical Academy [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Teaching faithful students who will be able to teacher others also. Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it, but those who fail to learn the lessons of history are just doomed. Would you take a few minutes from your busy day and send me an essay responding to the following question: Why has feeling good and looking good replaced being good and doing good? 500 words ought to do it. >>> Geoffrey Layton 10/28/10 11:20 AM >>> This sounds a little extreme- sort of in the same league as never starting a sentence with because, but, or and; or never ending a sentence with a preposition; or never splitting an infinitive. Not allowing sentences to start with "there" limits rhetorical effectiveness - "There are many reasons why I like to start sentences with 'there'" seems more powerful than "I like to start sentences with 'there' for many reasons." Geoff Layton My students are not allowed to write sentences beginning with THERE by reason of the unnecessary confusion. If they are writing dialogue, then I lift the rule, because vocal inflections to overcome the confusion. ________________________________ Scanned by GenNET AV in To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ *********************************************************************************************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information regarding the Flint Community Schools or students of the Flint Community School system. This e-mail and any attached files are intended only for the use of the person/s or entity to which it is addressed and should be considered confidential. If this e-mail was sent to you in error, please immediately notify the sender via the e-mail address shown and delete this message from your mail system. *********************************************************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________ Scanned by GenNET AV out