It is very unpleasant to access this listerv only to find petulant jibes at other subscribers. As I know very little about how such listservs function, I have no idea how to establish a protocol of politeness and civility. At the end of the day I think that is more important than the sort of exchange below and the smug superiority it displays. tj On Friday 12/24/2010 at 9:13 am, Brad Johnston wrote: > > > > From: Eduard Hanganu <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 7:49:52 AM > Subject: Re: Despain, Mastering the Challenge > > >> Brad, > > > > >> I know what the past perfect is, > > Fine. Let's see it. > > >> and I understand its value on the time axis. > > > Fine. Let's see it. > > >> I use it in a couple of languages > > You haven't yet demonstrated it in English > > >> I can also define it, > > > Fine. Let's see it. > > >> but what difference would it make to you? > > Lots, Eduard. You think I have nothing better to do than grapple with > a defensive grammarian? Hardly. > > >> You are not a believer. > > I believe in the obvious results of a 10-year inquiry into the nature > and extent of the misuse of 'had' in contemporary English. > > >> I am not peevish. > > Resipsa Loquitur. > > >> I am just tired of your endless repetitions of the same ignorant > affirmations on the tenses in English. > > If you're tired, hit the 'delete' button. I'll miss you. You're > interesting and good fun until you get peevish. > > >> You need to do a little reading before you can make some relevant > conversation. > > I have read more than you will ever read on the subject. > > >> Quirk and Comrie's books are not diversions from the topic. They > contain information that might improve your understanding of the > English tenses. > > > Fine. Let's see it ... or direct me to page numbers or sections. I > stand by "Quirk won't help you." > > >> Happy Holidays! > > >> Eduard > > "No offense intended" > > .brad.24dec10. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010 20:29 > Subject: Re: Despain, Mastering the Challenge > To: [log in to unmask] > > > Eduard is peevish because I asked him, after a number of > > pleasant and > > interesting exchanges, to define the past perfect. He can't do > > it. He doesn't > > know what it is. That makes him cross. (If you can do > > it, Eduard, do it. Don't > > rant at me. Just do it.) > > > > I then asked him to ask each person in one of his classes to > > send me a > > definition, without him explaining what it is. I don't want to > > read 30 > > variations on what he tells them. Make it open book. Let them > > look it up if they > > want. > > > > He won't do that either, so he sends out a spleen-gram, and he > > drops Quirk's > > name as a smoke screen but Quirk won't help him. How's that for > > a definitive > > statement? Quirk won't help. > > > > Please prove me wrong, Eduard. Maybe the others will help you. > > Who has Quirk > > handy? > > > > .brad.23dec10. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Eduard Hanganu <[log in to unmask]> > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 7:41:35 AM > > Subject: Re: Bruce Despain, Mastering the Challenge > > > > > > Brad, > > > > This is my example: > > > > "I HAD BEEN READING [ Past Perfect Tense Progressive Aspect] > > your rumblings for > > too long before I DECIDED [ Absolute Simple Past Tense ] > > that they were not > > worth my time." > > > > This is a proper use of the Progressive Past Perfect Tense > > (Aspect) and of the > > (Absolute) Simple Past Tense on the time axis. See Quirk et al. > > in "A > > Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language," and Comrie in > > "Aspect." > > > > > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/