Mary Jo, you're right. One final thought on this current topic and
then I'll pose
a new question.
The problem with instant deletion may very well blip folks who are
talking about
something other than whatever was originally offending. May I suggest
that one
might at the very least add a caveat in the original Subject line to
indicate a change
of topic?
Now, to my ignorance: I'd very much like to hear a discussion of what
some of us
old folks once called nominative absolutes.
tj
On Saturday 12/25/2010 at 3:16 pm, Mary Jo Napholz wrote:
> I have learned to use the delete button often with this list serve.
> Some discussions are relevant to me and others not. I just check out
> the tread and if I see the bickering attitude, click on delete. Some
> want to prove that they are "right," but most of us just wish to be
> part of the discourse; sometimes as observes, sometimes as
> contributors. Don't leave the list serve because of a few, start your
> own thread about what is relevant to you. Delete those conversations
> that are not. Happy Holidays to all. Mary Jo Napholz
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: T. J. Ray <[log in to unmask]>
> To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 24, 2010 11:44 am
> Subject: Re: Despain, Mastering the Challenge
>
>
> It is very unpleasant to access this listerv only to find petulant
> jibes at other
> subscribers. As I know very little about how such listservs function,
> I have
> no idea how to establish a protocol of politeness and civility. At
> the end of
> the day I think that is more important than the sort of exchange below
> and
> the smug superiority it displays.
>
> tj
>
>
>
> On Friday 12/24/2010 at 9:13 am, Brad Johnston wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Eduard Hanganu <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 7:49:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: Despain, Mastering the Challenge
>>
>> >> Brad,
>>
>>
>>
>> >> I know what the past perfect is,
>>
>> Fine. Let's see it.
>>
>> >> and I understand its value on the time axis.
>>
>>
>> Fine. Let's see it.
>>
>> >> I use it in a couple of languages
>>
>> You haven't yet demonstrated it in English
>>
>> >> I can also define it,
>>
>>
>> Fine. Let's see it.
>>
>> >> but what difference would it make to you?
>>
>> Lots, Eduard. You think I have nothing better to do than grapple with
>> a defensive grammarian? Hardly.
>>
>> >> You are not a believer.
>>
>> I believe in the obvious results of a 10-year inquiry into the nature
>> and extent of the misuse of 'had' in contemporary English.
>>
>> >> I am not peevish.
>>
>> Resipsa Loquitur.
>>
>> >> I am just tired of your endless repetitions of the same ignorant
>> affirmations on the tenses in English.
>>
>> If you're tired, hit the 'delete' button. I'll miss you. You're
>> interesting and good fun until you get peevish.
>>
>> >> You need to do a little reading before you can make some relevant
>> conversation.
>>
>> I have read more than you will ever read on the subject.
>>
>> >> Quirk and Comrie's books are not diversions from the topic. They
>> contain information that might improve your understanding of the
>> English tenses.
>>
>>
>> Fine. Let's see it ... or direct me to page numbers or sections. I
>> stand by "Quirk won't help you."
>>
>> >> Happy Holidays!
>>
>> >> Eduard
>>
>> "No offense intended"
>>
>> .brad.24dec10.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010 20:29
>> Subject: Re: Despain, Mastering the Challenge
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> > Eduard is peevish because I asked him, after a number of
>> > pleasant and
>> > interesting exchanges, to define the past perfect. He can't do
>> > it. He doesn't
>> > know what it is. That makes him cross. (If you can do
>> > it, Eduard, do it. Don't
>> > rant at me. Just do it.)
>> >
>> > I then asked him to ask each person in one of his classes to
>> > send me a
>> > definition, without him explaining what it is. I don't want to
>> > read 30
>> > variations on what he tells them. Make it open book. Let them
>> > look it up if they
>> > want.
>> >
>> > He won't do that either, so he sends out a spleen-gram, and he
>> > drops Quirk's
>> > name as a smoke screen but Quirk won't help him. How's that for
>> > a definitive
>> > statement? Quirk won't help.
>> >
>> > Please prove me wrong, Eduard. Maybe the others will help you.
>> > Who has Quirk
>> > handy?
>> >
>> > .brad.23dec10.
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Eduard Hanganu <[log in to unmask]>
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 7:41:35 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Bruce Despain, Mastering the Challenge
>> >
>> >
>> > Brad,
>> >
>> > This is my example:
>> >
>> > "I HAD BEEN READING [ Past Perfect Tense Progressive Aspect]
>> > your rumblings for
>> > too long before I DECIDED [ Absolute Simple Past Tense ]
>> > that they were not
>> > worth my time."
>> >
>> > This is a proper use of the Progressive Past Perfect Tense
>> > (Aspect) and of the
>> > (Absolute) Simple Past Tense on the time axis. See Quirk et al.
>> > in "A
>> > Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language," and Comrie in
>> > "Aspect."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Eduard
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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