Karl,

I'm sorry you're angry but remember, YOU took it to the list and YOU are the person who is angry. And YOU are the person who called me a "troll", which is OK. That's what angry people do. No problem.

But as long as were here, let's let the list look at your definition and let them decide if it is what we (Karl and Brad) are looking for, which is the kind of definition you say "can be found in any decent grammar text".

These are your words exactly, from 02dec10. "My definition: The past perfect in English is a compound tense that combines the primary past tense with the perfect, which is a secondary tense system. The past perfect prototypicaly functions to locate an event prior to a second past event."

I replied, (this is exact): "Don't be impatient. We're getting there. The question was, How do you define it? Tell me what the past perfect is." And you replied, "The past perfect functions to locate an event prior to a second past event".

So if I say, "I went to the store yesterday and bought potatoes", the past perfect functions to locate the prior event, going to the store, from the second event, buying the potatoes?

'Zat how it works? Or do you want to adjust your definition?

And you replied, "No, I don't want to change it. It is correct."

So, ATEG, here is the definition: "The past perfect functions to locate an event prior to a second past event".

Is it good or is it not-so-good? Is it what we're looking for? or can we do better? (Remember, we're talking about Teaching Grammar. That's what this is all about.)

.brad.06dec10.

From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 8:39:21 PM
Subject: Re: common irregular verbs

Pot, meet kettle. Everyone else on the list agrees with Eduard. For my
money, the real arrogance is in thinking that you are the only one who
knows the truth about the perfect.

Further, my discussion about the perfect with you was off the list, and
you have just misrepresented what I told you in private to the entire list.

For the record, I gave you a definition, and then I corrected your
imprecise paraphrase of my definition. I did not back away from it.

I should have known that you were too stupid to understand the distinction.

Also, I stand by my use of the perfect in my last message to the list.
It's Standard English, and the only thing you demonstrate by trying to
ridicule it is your complete ineptitude as a judge of English grammar.

Once again you have demonstrated why you deserve to be shunned, and I
deeply regret my folly in writing to you.

This will be my last message to you. I am adding you back to my idiot
filter.