Dick, You have espoused a position (if I followed it right) that I would fundamentally agree with: that the past perfect is recognizable first and foremost as a form--had plus past participle. And that whether it is being used appropriately or inappropriately, effectively or ineffectively, it remains past perfect, just as a screw driver remains a screw driver even when you use it to poke someone in the eye. Questions about effective use can be thought of as separate from that. Craig > Craig, > > I agree completely, and I look forward to every one of Herb's posts. But > people do continue to respond to Brad. If doing the same thing again and > again and expecting a different result is insanity, I wonder who is > crazier, > those who keep taking Brad's bait or those (like you and me) who keep > trying > to get others to *stop *taking his bait. > > Dick > > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> Dick, >> The idea for this most recent conversation is to come up with a view >> of >> the past perfect that pleases the rest of us. Whether it pleases Brad is >> not >> important. It is insanity to expect a conversation with Brad to >> accomplish >> anything new, so our goal should be to discuss it with each other. I am >> looking forward to reading what Herb comes up with. I expect Brad to >> react >> angrily to that, but his response is irrelevant. >> I may be wrong, but I think reacting to Brad has kept us from a >> productive discussion. >> >> Craig >> >> >> On 2/16/2011 3:51 PM, Dick Veit wrote: >> >> If we would all try just a little harder, explain the past perfect just >> a >> little more clearly, try just one or two or fifty more times to get >> you-know-who to engage in productive dialogue, surely then he will see >> reason and all will be well and we can turn to other topics. We won't >> know >> if we don't try many, many, many more times, will we? >> >> Cheers, >> Dick >> >> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Geoffrey Layton >> <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >> >>> :) >>> >>> Geoff Layton >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 08:45:46 -0500 >>> From: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: insanity >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> >>> >>> Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different >>> results. >>> >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface >> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or >> leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface >> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or >> leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/