Bob, I still say RBI, but I hear more and more sports announcers saying like "ribby." tj On Sunday 03/27/2011 at 10:45 am, Robert Yates wrote: > Just some observations about initialisms to words. > > In English, UN is still the initial; however in French UNO is a word. > > The same is true for UFO; also a word in French and German. > > On the other had, there is the case of RBI. Do you pronounce the > letters or is it a word for you? > > Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri > >> >>> >>>> >>>> "T. J. Ray" <[log in to unmask]> 03/27/11 6:27 AM >>> > Herb, > I appreciate your response. Can't find anything in it to disagree > with at all. My > curiosity involves how many different ways people define "word" in > daily life. > You touched on the way linguists use the term, leaving us with the > conclusion > that "the President of the United States" is one word. Teachers > assigning > 100-word essays to students would more likely count that example as > six > words. Dictionary makers are very spotty in whether they include > items > with more than word word in them. > > I'm also curious as to the transition from using the words for the > letters (GP, > RADAR) to seeing the grouping as a standalone entity where the > individual > words are not being thought of. (Yes, that is a terrible sentence!) > As many times > as folks refer to the United Nations as "the UN," I've yet to hear > anyone say "UN" > as a word. > > Thanks. > > tj > > > > On Saturday 03/26/2011 at 11:00 pm, "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" wrote: >> >> >> >> Without getting into some difficult and probably not entirely relevant > >> >> linguistic issues, there is a linguistic definition of word that goes >> back to Leonard Bloomfield, the author of what was for decades a >> standard text on linguistics. He describes a word as a “minimal >> free form,” that is, the smallest portion of an utterance that can >> be pronounced in isolation without changing it phonologically or >> morphologically. Thus in a spoken sentence like >> >> The ball’s in play. >> [D@ ‘bOlz Im ‘pleI] (ASCII IPA with spaces for clarity) >> >> For an English speaker who is not specifically phonetically trained >> and behaving like a linguist, the minimal parts of this utterance that > >> >> can be pronounced in isolation without changing their phonetic or >> morphological form are [‘bOl] “ball” and [‘pleI] “play.” >> If phonetically untrained native speakers try to pronounce the >> unstressed syllable [D@] “the” by itself they will say either >> [‘DV] or [‘Di], stressing either form, because any isolated >> one-syllable utterance in English must be stressed. By Bloomfield’s >> definition, only “ball” and “play” would be words. “the,” >> “’s,” and “in” would be something linguists call >> “cliticized forms,” that is, unstressed forms that attach to >> stressed forms. (There’s more to clitics than that, but it’s >> mostly not relevant here either.) >> >> I suspect this is not what you meant by your question, though. I >> think you are asking rather how something people say gets some sort of > >> >> official recognition as a word. Most dictionary writers have a >> strong descriptivist streak in them, and they allow usage to determine > >> >> what is a word. If an acronym like “radar” begins to appear in >> print enough, then they will include it as a word, perhaps adding a >> usage marker of some sort. The same holds for initialisms (LOL), loan > >> >> words (sushi), slang (cool), and other sorts of new words. Different >> dictionaries will have different standards by which they determine >> whether to include something as a new word, which means that there are > >> >> lots of words out there that aren’t yet acknowledged by an authority >> like a dictionary. >> >> Herb >> >> >> >> >> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of T. J. Ray >> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:36 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: The Word >> >> With dictionaries beginning to add items such as LOL to their listings > >> >> of words, >> >> it might be a good time to pose the question What is a word? >> >> >> >> Granted that aconyms have been comi> loran, radar, sonar, snafu, jeep, >> kayo, veep, emcee, and others. In >> most of such >> >> instances, the new "word" is a blending of the individual letters and >> is pronounced >> >> as a single lexical unit. Do LOL and such texting shortcuts qualify? > >> >> When one >> >> sees LOL, isn't the mental response a return to "laugh out loud"? >> Words such >> >> as jeep don't (at least any longer) evoke "general purpose." >> >> >> >> I look forward to your feedback. >> >> >> >> tj >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > >> >> "Join or leave the list" >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > >> >> "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/