Marshall -
I NEVER SAID IT DIDN'T MATTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is there about my post that people are getting? All I'm asking for are examples of sentences where using "because" to start a sentence is, indeed, awkward. This to me was the import of Edmonds' post. I can't believe there aren't any!
Geoff Layton
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:58:27 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]
Geoff,
As a trained rhetorician and linguist, I would say where you put the “because” clause really does matter.
Since the last position in the sentence is generally thought of as the most emphatic position, putting the “because” clause last emphasizes the cause; putting it first emphasizes the result of the cause.
Marshall
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
Craig -
The reverse of what is equally true? What are you arguing here - that the rhetorical meaning of a sentence can change depending on whether "because" starts the sentence? That is totally off the point. Re-read my post - nowhere did I argue against starting a sentence with "because" - I know the rhetorical choices involved. But you merely buttress this well-established point. That wasn't the point. Instead, go back in your treasure trove and come up with examples of what Edmonds was suggesting - namely, that there are awkward examples of starting sentences with "because" - you have many more resources than I do! Instead of flaying a dead horse, let's advance the conversation!
You point out that "awkwardness depends on context" - this is what I was trying to point out, and perhaps what Edmonds was trying to point out - let's address that point! When is it awkward to start a sentence with "because"?
Geoff Layton
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:14:35 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]
Geoff, and all,
The reverse is equally true. Consider "Because you were late, we lost everything" as opposed to "We lost everything because you were late." Since losing everything seems a more important piece of information, the first seems smoother (more congruent with meaning) to my ear. It also allows for two pints of emphasis.
Introductory word groups of all kinds (anything other than the main clause grammatical subject) are recognized as marked theme in systemic functional grammar. They are intonationally marked in speech. They function as a stepping off point for the mesage structure of the sentence. It is not a trivial choice. Awkwardness would depend on context, not on some arbitrary formal rule.
Unfortunately, English teachers tend to rely on hearing as an alternative to grammar. Saying you should put commas where you hear the pause is about as useful as "a sentence is a complete thought," dangerous because it oversimplifies. Intonation is a grammatical system, and paying attention to it leads us into the heart of syntax--more appropriately, into the heart of the grammar-meaning connection.
We don't just punctuate sentences--we construct them. The punctuation should work in harmony with those choices. Most students don't get very far on hearing alone. It is also one thing to know how you would say it, another to anticipate how a reader would hear it on the basis of what you have provided (or failed to provide) as clues.
Craig
On 4/13/2011 11:49 AM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
TJ - Not to quibble, but I think the emphasis was on "awkward," not "incorrect," and starting a sentence with because can be considered awkward depending on the useage.
Geoff Layton
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:38:37 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]
Crystal,
Your encouragement of your students is a matter of choice, but I don't see that beginning a
sentence with "Because" is incorrect.
tj
On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 10:01 am, Crystal Edmonds wrote:
The subordinating conjunction "because" is used to link the dependent clause to the independent clause. I encourage my students to place such subordinate clauses at the end of the sentence so that there are no errors in comma usage. However, many students want to begin a sentence with "because". While it is not incorrect, the sentence structure does appear awkward.
Using "for" illustrates students' sentence variety. That is important for me.
C. Edmonds, Chair
Associate in Arts
English and Humanities
Robeson Community College
PO Box 1420
Lumberton, NC 28359
(910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
(910) 272-3328 (fax)
[log in to unmask]
RCC 4 R.E.A.L. Reading Engages Active Learning
A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>>> On 4/13/2011 at 8:52 AM, in message <[log in to unmask]>, "Katz, Seth" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Traditional lists of coordinating conjunctions included "for" (hence the "F" in the acronym "FANBOYS" for remembering the list of coordinating conjunctions); but it seems to me that the use of "for" as a coordinating conjunction in English has largely been succeeded by the use of "because."
I find I'm not sure here what the distinction is between a coordinating conjunction and a subordinating conjunction. Help?
Dr. Seth Katz
Assistant Professor
Department of English
Bradley University
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of T. J. Ray
Sent: Wed 4/13/2011 6:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
I believe you're right in thinking he feels this is a coordinate conjunction. My understanding is that
"because" clauses are dependent and hence should not be preceded with a comma. I just
wanted a number of opinions before I bring it to the committee's attention, folks who evidently
don't see a problem with it as no one had marked any of these before I saw the MSS.
Thanks for your time.
On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 5:43 am, "Dixon, Jack" wrote:
Focusing on the obvious, I suspect the writer believes that "because" functions as a coordinating conjunction rather than a subordinating. Does the student punctuate most subordinating clauses that follow the independent clause this way, or do he make this mistake with "because" only?
I seem to remember that Martha Kolln in _Rhetorical Grammar_ addresses the few instances when terminal subord. clauses are set off with commas.
________________________________________
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