Geoff,
I believe I gave an example in my reply to Peter.
"People have been abandoning their homes. In part because their
homes are worth less than they owe, they are doing so."
"People have been abandoning their homes. They are doing so, in
part, because their homes are worth less than they owe."
The first one seems awkward to me because the main clause is
entirely given information.
If YOU believe opening with a because clause creates awkwardness,
why are you relying on us for examples? I believe that's what confused
us (and frustrated you.)
It's more an issue of discourse than of strict syntax. The above
example works (for me) because decisions should fit the discourse
situation. Given and new are part of that.
Craig
On 4/13/2011 11:39 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
> Brad - I'm starting to feel as if I'm channeling you - CAN WE PLEASE
> HAVE SOME AWKWARDNESS! You've given us the well-turned phrase!
>
> Geoff Layton
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:10:38 -0700
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Because? Awkward? Nah
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Because of you, there's a song in my heart
> Because of you, our romance had its start
> Because of you, the sun will shine
> The moon and stars will say you're mine
> Forever and never to part
> I only live for your love and your kiss
> It's paradise to be near you like this
> Because of you, my life is now worthwhile
> And I can smile, because of you.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Wed, April 13, 2011 9:19:03 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Punctuation Question - NOW AWKWARDNESS?
>
> This entire thread has become a scene out of a Kafka novel! What is
> missing here are some examples of awkwardness. Does anybody (except
> Crystal and me) think that beginning a sentence with "because" can be
> awkward (*/_NOT_/* incorrect - just awkward)? Nobody seems to want to
> acknowledge this point - or, as Bill does below - wants to dismiss it
> as a condition affecting all introductory dependent clauses. My own
> "automatic tagging program for awkwardness" tells me that "because"
> clauses cause unique problems, as either an introduction or elsewhere
> in the sentence. My question is now as it has been from the start of
> this frustrating conversation - does anybody have any examples of what
> might be called awkward "because" constructions, or now, since the
> list has apparently been expanded, any other "awkward" dependent
> clause constructions? Perhaps we should change the thread to a
> discussion of awkwardness - how is created, how can it be corrected,
> and how can it be avoided? Given the paucity of information so far,
> I'll go for intuitive judgments as nothing else seems to be working.
>
> Geoff Layton
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 23:12:08 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> Crystal:
>
> “It can create an awkwardly structured sentence if not done correctly”
> applies to pretty much any construction, I’d think; it ends up being
> circular. The issue is whether initial because-clauses are more
> /frequently/ awkward than non-initial ones. I suspect they’re not,
> although getting some kind of outside measurement of that would be a
> fun headache (“Anybody got an automatic tagging program for
> awkwardness? Anybody?”). Given the danger of confirmation bias in
> this kind of endeavor, one thing we probably should not rely on is
> intuitive judgments about how often-misused a construction, or item, is.
>
> --- Bill Spruiell
>
> *From:*Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Crystal Edmonds
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:10 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: Punctuation Question
>
> Geoff and TJ,
>
> I am not discouraging students to begin a sentence with the
> conjunction "because." It is not incorrect but it can create a
> awkwardly structured sentence if not done correctly.
>
> C. Edmonds, Chair
> Associate in Arts
> English and Humanities
> Robeson Community College
> PO Box 1420
> Lumberton, NC 28359
> (910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
> (910) 272-3328 (fax)
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> *RCC 4 R.E.A.L.* /Reading Engages Active Learning/
>
> A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>
> >>> On 4/13/2011 at 2:17 PM, in message <[log in to unmask]>,
> Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Geoff,
> Now I'm confused. Here's what I replied to:
>
> TJ - Not to quibble, but I think the emphasis was on "awkward," not
> "incorrect," and starting a sentence with because can be considered
> awkward depending on the useage.
>
> Geoff Layton
>
> I thought you were saying that "because" might be discouraged
> because it is awkward to begin sentences that way. Now you are asking
> US for examples to back up your point. Or am I missing something?
> I have a friend who says it's a miracle that we ever understand
> each other, the possibilities for misunderstanding being as great as
> they are. Here we are as living proof.
> Any grammatical construction, including sentences starting with
> "because" as the head of a subordinate clause, will be awkward if they
> don't fit the discourse purposes.
>
> I would be interested to see examples. My earlier ones were an
> attempt to ADD the fact that starting with these clauses is often well
> motivated.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 1:31 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
>
> Craig,
>
> All I'm asking for is to "give awkwardness a chance"! When is it
> awkward to start a sentence with because?
>
> Geoff
>
> /*Starting a sentence with because can be awkward. Agreed*/.
>
> On 4/13/2011 12:32 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
>
> Craig -
>
> The reverse of what is equally true? What are you arguing here -
> that the rhetorical meaning of a sentence can change depending on
> whether "because" starts the sentence? That is totally off the
> point. Re-read my post - nowhere did I argue against starting a
> sentence with "because" - I know the rhetorical choices involved.
> But you merely buttress this well-established point. That wasn't
> the point. Instead, go back in your treasure trove and come up
> with examples of what Edmonds was suggesting - namely, that there
> are awkward examples of starting sentences with "because" - you
> have many more resources than I do! Instead of flaying a dead
> horse, let's advance the conversation!
>
> You point out that "awkwardness depends on context" - this is what
> I was trying to point out, and perhaps what Edmonds was trying to
> point out - let's address that point! When is it awkward to start
> a sentence with "because"?
>
> Geoff Layton
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:14:35 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Geoff, and all,
> The reverse is equally true. Consider "Because you were late,
> we lost everything" as opposed to "We lost everything because you
> were late." Since losing everything seems a more important piece
> of information, the first seems smoother (more congruent with
> meaning) to my ear. It also allows for two pints of emphasis.
> Introductory word groups of all kinds (anything other than the
> main clause grammatical subject) are recognized as *marked theme*
> in systemic functional grammar. They are intonationally marked in
> speech. They function as a stepping off point for the mesage
> structure of the sentence. It is not a trivial choice. Awkwardness
> would depend on context, not on some arbitrary formal rule.
> Unfortunately, English teachers tend to rely on hearing as an
> alternative to grammar. Saying you should put commas where you
> hear the pause is about as useful as "a sentence is a complete
> thought," dangerous because it oversimplifies. Intonation is a
> grammatical system, and paying attention to it leads us into the
> heart of syntax--more appropriately, into the heart of the
> grammar-meaning connection.
> We don't just punctuate sentences--we construct them. The
> punctuation should work in harmony with those choices. Most
> students don't get very far on hearing alone. It is also one thing
> to know how you would say it, another to anticipate how a reader
> would hear it on the basis of what you have provided (or failed to
> provide) as clues.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 11:49 AM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
>
> TJ - Not to quibble, but I think the emphasis was on "awkward,"
> not "incorrect," and starting a sentence with because can be
> considered awkward depending on the useage.
>
> Geoff Layton
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:38:37 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Crystal,
>
> Your encouragement of your students is a matter of choice, but I
> don't see that beginning a
>
> sentence with "Because" is incorrect.
>
> tj
>
>
> On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 10:01 am, Crystal Edmonds wrote:
>
> The subordinating conjunction "because" is used to link the
> dependent clause to the independent clause. I encourage my
> students to place such subordinate clauses at the end of the
> sentence so that there are no errors in comma usage. However, many
> students want to begin a sentence with "because". While it is not
> incorrect, the sentence structure does appear awkward.
>
> Using "for" illustrates students' sentence variety. That is
> important for me.
>
> C. Edmonds, Chair
> Associate in Arts
> English and Humanities
> Robeson Community College
> PO Box 1420
> Lumberton, NC 28359
> (910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
> (910) 272-3328 (fax)
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> *RCC 4 R.E.A.L.* /Reading Engages Active Learning/
>
> A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>
> >>> On 4/13/2011 at 8:52 AM, in message
> <[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>,
> "Katz, Seth" <[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Traditional lists of coordinating conjunctions included "for"
> (hence the "F" in the acronym "FANBOYS" for remembering the list
> of coordinating conjunctions); but it seems to me that the use of
> "for" as a coordinating conjunction in English has largely been
> succeeded by the use of "because."
>
> I find I'm not sure here what the distinction is between a
> coordinating conjunction and a subordinating conjunction. Help?
>
> Dr. Seth Katz
> Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> Bradley University
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of T.
> J. Ray
> Sent: Wed 4/13/2011 6:16 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
>
>
> I believe you're right in thinking he feels this is a coordinate
> conjunction. My understanding is that
> "because" clauses are dependent and hence should not be preceded
> with a comma. I just
> wanted a number of opinions before I bring it to the committee's
> attention, folks who evidently
> don't see a problem with it as no one had marked any of these
> before I saw the MSS.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 5:43 am, "Dixon, Jack" wrote:
>
> Focusing on the obvious, I suspect the writer believes that
> "because" functions as a coordinating conjunction rather than a
> subordinating. Does the student punctuate most subordinating
> clauses that follow the independent clause this way, or do he make
> this mistake with "because" only?
>
> I seem to remember that Martha Kolln in _Rhetorical Grammar_
> addresses the few instances when terminal subord. clauses are set
> off with commas.
>
> ________________________________________
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