Karl asks an important question.

A "clause" is an abstract concept that has no existence independent of the
minds of those who use it. Grammar being a diverse and heterogeneous
discipline, different grammarians will stipulate different definitions for
"clause." Lacking a consensus, one cannot argue that one's own definition is
inherently right and natural; one can only attempt to demonstrate that it is
useful and explanatory. Karl is justified in saying, make the case.

While we're at it, a definition of "clause" would also have to specify what
the clauses are in a sentence like Iago's "Who steals my purse steals
trash."  This would seem to present a problem for my eighth grade teacher,
who, if I remember correctly, claimed that "main clauses" and "subordinate
clauses" were mutually exclusive. Is "steals trash" a main clause? Others
would define "clause" to have the entire sentence be a clause, which
contained within it the clause "Who steals my purse."

Equally stipulative is the definition of "phrase." The definition I find
most useful (something like "a group of words that we intuit as forming a
grammatical unit") would include not just noun phrases, prepositional
phrases, and the like, but also clauses and sentences as types of phrases.

Dick

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> TJ,
>
> I still don't get why you want to make the finite distinction. In what
> way do finite verbs in subordinate clauses "sustain" a sentence in a way
> that a nonfinite verb does not? Neither a subordinate clause nor an
> infinitive whatever-we-want-to-call-it will "sustain" a complete sentence.
>
> I don't think teaching the distinction between finite and nonfinite is
> problematic. I just think that tying the "clause" label to finite verbs
> alone is neither accurate nor pedagogically helpful.
>
> Karl
>
>

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