Thanks, Karl. That is what I meant to imply, but didn't say it clearly enough. Edith -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Karl Hagen Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:16 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: didn't use(d) to Dick, Perhaps its hypercorrection: writers and editors are so used to the rule that the expression is "used to" and not "use to" that they add the past-tense marker even where there is no logical reason for it. Karl On 06/14/2011 11:02 AM, Dick Veit wrote: > Edith, > > We all agree that "I use to" is nonstandard inasmuch as, while used by > the occasional unsophisticated student, it is rarely if ever seen in > reputable publications or written by reputable writers. But "didn't used > to" appears all the time--in magazines, novels, newspapers. If it is > "incorrect," it is sure getting past a lot of well paid copy-editors. To > get a very rough measure of usage, I Googled "didn't used to" (183 > million results) and "didn't use to" (121 million results). I cite these > numbers /only /to show that both occur a lot. > > I'm much less interested in the right and wrong than in the why. Herb > stated reasons why "used to" can get reduced to "use to," but I wonder > how the "d" came to exist at all in "didn't used to." > > Dick > > > > On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Wollin, Edith <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > I have always thought that "didn't used to" was incorrect, so I was > surprised to see that some handbooks consider it standard. I think > it is the pronunciation that causes the confusion and perhaps > change. I have had many students write, "I use to" when it was > clearly a past situation and needed " I used to." > > Edith Wollin// > > > > *From:*Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] > *On Behalf Of *Dick Veit > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:45 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > *Subject:* didn't use(d) to > > > > Two quotations from recently encountered novels: > > "There's bad blood now. *Didn't use to* be like that..." (dialog in > Alan Furst's /Spies of the Balkans/, p. 102, Kindle edition). > "She *didn't used to* smoke around the kids..." (Kate Atkinson, > /When Will There Be Good News?/, p. 126, Kindle edition). > > So which is it, /didn't use to/ or /didn't used to/? > > A few usage guides I consulted prescribe "didn't use to," but others > say both are standard. In my own writing, I probably would have used > "didn't used to." > > On the one hand, "used to/didn't use to" would parallel other verbs > (laughed/didn't laugh), but, on the other, we're talking about a > quasimodal, and with modals we can expect significant variations > from other verbs. Pronunciation is no help--both "use to" and "used > to" are spoken identically as "useta." > > Thoughts? > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/