Brad,
Here is something that is worth looking at:
From: http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage /pastperfect.html /pastperfect.html
Past Perfect
FORM
[had + past participle]
Examples:
· You had studied English before you moved to New York.
· Had you studied English before you moved to New York?
· You had not studied English before you moved to New York.
Complete List of Past Perfect Forms
USE 1 Completed Action Before Something in the Past
The Past Perfect expresses the idea that something occurred before another action in the past. It can also show that something happened before a specific time in the past.
Examples:
· I had never seen such a beautiful beach before I went to Kauai.
· I did not have any money because I had lost my wallet.
· Tony knew Istanbul so well because he had visited the city several times.
· Had Susan ever studied Thai before she moved to Thailand?
· She only understood the movie because she had read the book.
· Kristine had never been to an opera before last night.
· We were not able to get a hotel room because we had not booked in advance.
· A: Had you ever visited the U.S. before your trip in 2006?
B: Yes, I had been to the U.S. once before.
USE 2 Duration Before Something in the Past (Non-Continuous Verbs)
With Non-Continuous Verbs and some non-continuous uses of Mixed Verbs , we use the Past Perfect to show that something started in the past and continued up until another action in the past.
Examples:
· We had had that car for ten years before it broke down.
· By the time Alex finished his studies, he had been in London for over eight years.
· They felt bad about selling the house because they had owned it for more than forty years.
Although the above use of Past Perfect is normally limited to Non-Continuous Verbs and non-continuous uses of Mixed Verbs, the words "live," "work," "teach," and "study" are sometimes used in this way even though they are NOT Non-Continuous Verbs.
IMPORTANT Specific Times with the Past Perfect
Unlike with the Present Perfect , it is possible to use specific time words or phrases with the Past Perfect. Although this is possible, it is usually not necessary.
Example:
· She had visited her Japanese relatives once in 1993 before she moved in with them in 1996.
MOREOVER
If the Past Perfect action did occur at a specific time, the Simple Past can be used instead of the Past Perfect when "before" or "after" is used in the sentence. The words "before" and "after" actually tell you what happens first, so the Past Perfect is optional. For this reason, both sentences below are correct.
Examples:
· She had visited her Japanese relatives once in 1993 before she moved in with them in 1996.
· She visited her Japanese relatives once in 1993 before she moved in with them in 1996.
HOWEVER
If the Past Perfect is not referring to an action at a specific time, Past Perfect is not optional. Compare the examples below. Here Past Perfect is referring to a lack of experience rather than an action at a specific time. For this reason, Simple Past cannot be used.
Examples:
· She never saw a bear before she moved to Alaska. Not Correct
· She had never seen a bear before she moved to Alaska. Correct
ADVERB PLACEMENT
The examples below show the placement for grammar adverbs such as: always, only, never, ever, still, just, etc.
Examples:
· You had previously studied English before you moved to New York.
· Had you previously studied English before you moved to New York?
ACTIVE / PASSIVE
Examples:
· George had repaired many cars before he received his mechanic's license. Active
· Many cars had been repaired by George before he received his mechanic's license. Passive
I hope this helps you to understand the past perfect and its usage in a sentence.
Eduard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Johnston" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:50:15 PM
Subject: Re: intruding 'had's
Christopher,
You think this displays an "intellectual and civil attitude"? The only one who with a "had" problem seems to be you. This is because you don't understand the verb's tense and aspect - in English or other languages. A little fifth grade grammar would do you a lot of good.
As a matter of fact, I will be pleased and delighted if he will do as I asked. I hope he meant to volunteer, but I'll bet he won't do it, not because he won't but because he can't. He doesn't know what it is.
Do you know what it is?
The part about dropping out of school was only in reply to his jibe about fifth grade grammar. My rejoinder does not strike me as excessive, but if it offends you, I'm sorry.
What is it, Christopher? What is the past perfect? Our whole world is watching.
.brad.26 july 11.
From: Christopher Shull <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: intruding ' had's
I think sarcasm demeans the intellectual and civil attitude we should be taking here.
Chris
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:19 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: intruding ' had's
Aaah , Eduard. How NICE of you to drop by. You are just what I need.
I had to drop out of school after the fourth grade to help support my family, so I never had the advantages you had.
It would be really, really helpful to me if you would please tell me what the past perfect is and give me some examples. Don't be too technical, just tell me what it is.
Many thanks.
.brad.26 july 11.
From: Eduard Hanganu <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: intruding ' had's
Brad,
The only one who with a "had" problem seems to be you. This is because you don't understand the verb's tense and aspect - in English or other languages. A little fifth grade grammar would do you a lot of good.
Eduard
From: "Brad Johnston" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:15:27 AM
Subject: Re: intruding ' had's
Geoff wrote, So I was right that this was wrong but for the wrong reason - I <hadn't thought > didn't think of that!
On the list or 'had' errors, 'had-for-did' is the fourth most frequent, after (1) 'had' in front of a past tense verb, (2) 'had been' where 'was' or 'were' belong, and (3) 'had' in front of an irregular past tense verb. 'Had-for-did' is a scrap, but a noticeable scrap. The bulk of the intruding ' had's put 'had' in front of regular and irregular past tense verbs, and that happens a lot.
My standard test is the first 21 pages of a novel. I note all the ' had's and that will be 50, 60, 80, 100 total. I subtract the correct usages of the past tense of 'have', and the past perfect, and the subjunctive. The error percentage thus derived runs from 45% to 90% (believe it or not).
I recently started a novel in which there are 166 ' had's in the first 21 pages (a record) and the error rate is 77% (not a record). I wrote to the author and told him there are too many grammar errors for me to continue. He wrote back saying "Thank you very much. I'll talk to my copy editor about it". Authors tend to be defensive. Copy editors tend to be either defensive or dismissive, saying it's not their job. They make sure Pearl Harbor Day does not show as the 7 th of January but otherwise the author can write whatever he or she wants to write.
James Patterson made $32 million in royalties in a recent year. Imagine a copy editor with enough of a death-wish to be willing to say, "Excuse me, Mr. Patterson, Sir, but you have a 'had' problem". Think that will ever happen? Not likely, is it?
.br.had.26july11.
~~~~~~~~
From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: intruding ' had's
So I was right that this was wrong but for the wrong reason - I hadn't thought of that!
Geoff Layton
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:46:07 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: intruding ' Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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