Too many "educated" will applaud your first sentence and call you a bigot for your second. How dare you assert that the way people speak and write naturally is less than perfect. Did we teach in the same school in LA? I bluntly told my proofreading students that many of them were in the unusual situation of being both perfectly bilingual but illiterate in both languages (LA schools did not allow Hispanics to take regular Spanish classes but failed to offer special Spanish grammar and composition classes for Hispanics). In defense of the LA School district, the law required teachers in 70 Vietnamese languages, 60 Laotian, and, fortunately, only 10 Cambodian languages--thanks to the large numbers of speakers of Central Khmer and secondarily of Western Cham. The biggest problem were the Hmong--where the oral culture was highly prized and valued over literacy: many Hmong academies have sprung up to develop teaching materials and encourage literacy. The District has focused on Cantonese, Tagalog, Korean, and Samoan with a single KEYS school in Vietnamese--whatever that is--and one in Japanese. I was reviewing the hiring of an applicant and noted that he claimed to speak Chinese, Swiss, and Filipino (this was long before Manila renamed Tagalog). Because language proficiency in other than English had no bearing on his hire--he was highly unlikely to be dealing with US veterans in Las Vegas who did not speak fluent English--he was not terminated for falsifying an application; however, I did counsel him to be more accurate in future applications. He was. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 12:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: ATEG Digest - 12 Aug 2011 to 13 Aug 2011 (#2011-152) There are 3 messages totalling 303 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. ATEG Digest - 10 Aug 2011 to 12 Aug 2011 (#2011-151) 2. [BULK] Re: Usage question 3. a lot / alot To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:10:47 -0400 From: Scott Catledge <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 10 Aug 2011 to 12 Aug 2011 (#2011-151) I always answered usage questions by pointing out that, although no one could require the preferred spelling (unless you were an employee), everyone hiring has the right to judge the degree and/or level of language formality when verbal expression, particularly written, is requisite to the position. The right to judge follows the Golden Rule: who has the gold makes the rules. I have known major employers (e.g., owners of newspapers) who would hire those who did not use "proper" English only for manual labor positions. Admittedly some sports writers refused to conform and, on some newspapers of my acquaintance, were able to express themselves as they wanted; others were edited by the proofreading department--back when they existed. I had a friend in college who wanted to be an English teacher. His advisor told him, "You can't spell, your grammar is poor, and your usage is atrocious. You had better major in journalism: you will not be accepted as an English major." I told him that he should brush up on sports but not consider Orlando as a good place to work: the Sentinel-Star was noted at the time for its zero tolerance for grammatical, usage, and spelling errors. Unfortunately for him, the student newspaper also has zero tolerance for grammatical, usage, and spelling errors. He ended up majoring in P.E. Scott You have the absolute right to express yourself as you choose: others have the same right to reject you and/or your product as inappropriate. Any teachers who do not alert their students to the possibility that their grammatical, usage, and spelling errors may impact their further education and careers is doing them a disservice. I had Hispanic Angelenos in my proofreading classes who had graduated from high school as functional illiterates--both in English and in Spanish. They felt anger at having bothered to attend classes for 12 years only to be limited to menial jobs--they were even rejected by skilled trade training programs because they lacked the literacy to read technical manuals. When they asked me why they were not taught "proper" English in high school, I evaded the question by suggesting that they ask their teachers or guidance counselors. My preference is to give students knowledge and to let them make choices. > I > tell them that most educated writers (including the editors of almost=20 > every magazine, newspaper, and publishing house) use "all right" and=20 > not "alright," but the latter is used by a minority of writers, and=20 > its use may be growing. They can use "alright" if they like, but they=20 > can expect that a number of their readers may judge them on it. They=20 > might think twice before using "alright" in a college application=20 > essay or in a job application letter. > > Language is democratic, and if enough people join the "alright"=20 > bandwagon, it will become accepted the way "another" and "altogether" are= accepted. > Everyone is free to jump on that bandwagon, but it doesn't hurt to=20 > weigh the consequences. > > Dick > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Castilleja, Janet <=20 > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> If 'another' can be a word, why not 'alright'? I'm never marking=20 >> this wrong again.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Janet >> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/