Geoff, et al,
Graff does give the student the opportunity to argue against something after
paying close attention to it, but he also offers the opportunity to agree with
it or develop it. THere are numerous "Agreement templates" in the text,
including the option of a partial agreement.
I might add that Graff does not appear to me to be very successful in trying to
hide what looks like a conservative bias in his thinking and his choice of
texts, although he does try to be balanced. I find it curious, but not
surprising, that he finds himself on the opposite side of Deborah Tannen.
Paul D.
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable
fiction" (_Twelfth Night_ 3.4.127-128).
________________________________
From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, August 8, 2011 1:14:23 PM
Subject: Re: Holding their interest
Seth -
Thanks for the reference. This thread fits with a project on academic discourse
that I'm trying to develop. Perhaps one characteristic that Graff proposes
that might be different from the Rogerian model is his insistence that - after
all the listening and understanding - writers/academics must finally take a
position that differs from that of their interlocutors/respondents. For example,
in his book "Clueless in Academe," he offers significant criticism of Deborah
Tannen and the views she expresses in her book, "The Argument Culture: Moving
from Debate to Dialogue." As he puts it, "Perhaps the most telling refutation of
Tannen's thesis is the confrontational quality of the book itself. . . Tannen
enacts the behavior she objects to" (89). Similarly in "They Say," Graff
advances a method that will enhance the ability of students to argue, not
diminish it. His "listening and understanding" component, as I understand it, is
presented not as a way to be non-confrontational but rather as a means to make
sure that the resulting argument is telling and effective, much the same way
that he demonstrates his understanding of Tannen's position in order
to methodically destroy it.
To return to the theme of the thread - "Holding their interest" - perhaps this
discussion will help hold student interest by showing them that in order
to develop a powerful argument for their position, they must first thoroughly
understand the point of view of the person with whom they disagree - and, more
interestingly, in order to have something interesting to say, they must find an
area where they do disagree.
Geoff Layton
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:41:33 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Holding their interest
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Geoff--
>
> What you describe here sounds a lot like a Rogerian argument, in which the
>author (A) first explains the position he or she is opposed to (B), without
>criticism of any sort; the author (A) simply shows that they understand position
>(B). Then the author (A) offers non-pejorative critique of position (B): 'I see
>a problem/weakness/issue in position (B) that you (person who holds position
>[B]) have not addressed.' Then the author (A) offers elements of their own
>position on the issue that (A) thinks will help strengthen the opposing position
>(B). Based on the work of psychologist Carl Rogers, this type of argument is a
>mainstay of mediation: it shows that you are actually listening to the 'other,'
>treating their point of view as valid and thoughtful; and it presents your own
>argument not as antagonistic, but as potentially useful in helping the
>opposition achieve a more effective result (and one that both sides can possible
>agree to as a fair compromise). The only argumentative writing textbook I know
>of that has a whole Rogerian assignment is Nancy Wood's Essentials of Argument.
>
> I have a copy of They Say/I Say on my shelf--now I'll have to look at it!
>Thanks!
>
> Seth
>
> Dr. Seth Katz
> Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> Bradley University
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Geoffrey
Layton
> Sent: Sun 8/7/2011 10:13 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Holding their interest
>
>
> Paul,
>
> I think the most valuable part of the T/I Say is the "They say" portion because
>students must be able to identify what they're responding to - and why. In other
>words, they have to ask (and answer) the question what is it about the text that
>makes it interesting. I've had a lot of luck teaching "commonplaces" in the
>context of the following template, "Most (many, the author, my parents, etc)
>seem to think X (the "commonplace"), but a closer look reveals Y. It's important
>to recognize that Y is (just as important, preferable, superior to, different
>from, etc) X because . . ."
>
>
> Geoff Layton
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:46:38 -0700
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Holding To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the
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