Herb - thank you for a sincere and thoughtful, thought provoking response. It brings to mind a quote by a fairly wise man who once said something about "the unexamined life..." And I do agree that we need to be willing to be a bit more disrupted in our thinking. Thanks for that reminder. To bring it back to writing, it's also a reminder of the value of *writing to learn* prompts nestled among the test-driven, performance-oriented and expository pieces used to assess content or procedural knowledge. I maintain that journal writing and mini essays still have a significant place in the daily work of the language arts classroom. John On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > John,**** > > ** ** > > You raise a difficult issue. Clearly I have a stance, and it’s as > necessary and fair to contest its foundations as those of people I with > different stances. The issue, however, is not whether all stances should be > contested but how a stance holds up under such examination. I empathize > with my son’s friend because I come from a similar family background, > conservative Lutheran rather than Southern Baptist, but both share a strong > commitment to 19th c. biblical literalism. It took me years of sometimes > agonizing thinking to reach a point where I could reconcile my faith with my > experience and knowledge, and it required careful exploration and analysis > of foundational beliefs. It has also separated me somewhat from some of my > siblings who hold to the stances we grew up with. So I know both the need > to examine and the difficulty and sometimes pain of the experience we are > asking our students to undertake.**** > > ** ** > > I do hold, however, that an examined stance, one that has developed through > critical evaluation, has greater validity than one that has not been > examined. What I am saying is that not all stances are equal, just as not > all opinions are equal. I understand and even respect my son’s friend’s > stance, or that of some of my siblings, and certainly acknowledge their > right to maintain those stances. I understand also that those stances form > a foundation for moral, ethical, and positive lives. That’s in part why > leading students through such an examination is a serious, troubling, > disruptive endeavor—and necessary for their growth.**** > > ** ** > > Herb**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto: > [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *John Chorazy > *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2011 10:56 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: Holding their interest**** > > ** ** > > Herb - it seems your "suggestion" to your son about his friend suggests > just as much about your stance(s), and at the same time assumes quite a bit. > **** > > **** > > A good class - be it a Lit or writing class - is a place to explore, > discover, define, redefine, and analyze one's identity as well as that of > texts and their authors and societies... as long as that process > is encouraged for *all* students of *all* stances - not just for those who > need it more because they hold supposed anti-intellectual positions. **** > > **** > > Respectfully,**** > > **** > > John**** > > > > **** > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:37 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]> > wrote:**** > > Thanks to all of you for one of the most interesting and thoughtfully > argued threads we’ve had in a while.**** > > **** > > I have a question that may be tangential to this topic, or at least a > narrower focus. I should say first that while I have taught both ESL > writing and Freshman writing, I am not a writing teacher, and threads like > this always leave me with a lot of respect for those who perform these tasks > and perform them well.**** > > **** > > When I’ve taught writing, I’ve often been encouraged to avoid topics like > abortion and creationism vs. evolution because it’s so difficult for student > writers to separate themselves from the issues and from the social > consequences of taking a position. As an example of this, I had dinner with > my oldest son last night, and we got to talking about a good friend of his > at work. She is well educated, well read, and has thoughtful views on a lot > of topics. Evolution came up recently in one of their conversations, and > her response was, “Oh, I don’t believe in evolution. The evidence for it is > not very strong.” My son was surprised at her reaction. She comes from a > Southern Baptist background but is no longer connected to that or any other > denomination, so her reasons for rejecting evolution, and she confirms this, > are not religious. I suggested to him that perhaps the reason for her > position was a matter of social identity. Her family and the community she > grew up in are devout and accept the biblical creation story literally. > Rejecting evolution is a matter of family identity. She can become a > backslid Baptist, and that’s lamentable, but for her to accept evolution > would be to reject her family.**** > > **** > > In a case like this, a position on evolution or creation or abortion is not > an intellectual stance; it’s a matter of cultural and social identity, and > that makes it very hard to think critically about it. I’ve found in UG > classes where we deal with dialectology the notion “social class” sometimes > gets rejected out of hand as Marxist, and no amount of discussion will shake > that position. This is also one of those defining stances.**** > > **** > > Is a writing class the place to get students to question such elements of > their identity and look at themselves more critically? How does one go > about this?**** > > **** > > Herb**** > > **** > > **** > > > -- **** > > John Chorazy**** > > English III Honors and Academic**** > > Pequannock Township High School**** > > 973.616.6000**** > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" **** > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ **** > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > -- John Chorazy English III Honors and Academic Pequannock Township High School 973.616.6000 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/