Herb - thank you for a sincere and thoughtful, thought provoking
response. It brings to mind a quote by a fairly wise man who once said
something about "the unexamined life..." And I do agree that we need to be
willing to be a bit more disrupted in our thinking. Thanks for that
reminder.

To bring it back to writing, it's also a reminder of the value of *writing
to learn* prompts nestled among the test-driven, performance-oriented and
expository pieces used to assess content or procedural knowledge. I maintain
that journal writing and mini essays still have a significant place in the
daily work of the language arts classroom.

John



On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

>  John,****
>
> ** **
>
> You raise a difficult issue.  Clearly I have a stance, and it’s as
> necessary and fair to contest its foundations as those of people I with
> different stances.  The issue, however, is not whether all stances should be
> contested but how a stance holds up under such examination.  I empathize
> with my son’s friend because I come from a similar family background,
> conservative Lutheran rather than Southern Baptist, but both share a strong
> commitment to 19th c. biblical literalism.  It took me years of sometimes
> agonizing thinking to reach a point where I could reconcile my faith with my
> experience and knowledge, and it required careful exploration and analysis
> of foundational beliefs.  It has also separated me somewhat from some of my
> siblings who hold to the stances we grew up with.  So I know both the need
> to examine and the difficulty and sometimes pain of the experience we are
> asking our students to undertake.****
>
> ** **
>
> I do hold, however, that an examined stance, one that has developed through
> critical evaluation, has greater validity than one that has not been
> examined.  What I am saying is that not all stances are equal, just as not
> all opinions are equal.  I understand and even respect my son’s friend’s
> stance, or that of some of my siblings, and certainly acknowledge their
> right to maintain those stances.  I understand also that those stances form
> a foundation for moral, ethical, and positive lives.  That’s in part why
> leading students through such an examination is a serious, troubling,
> disruptive endeavor—and necessary for their growth.****
>
> ** **
>
> Herb****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *John Chorazy
> *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2011 10:56 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: Holding their interest****
>
> ** **
>
> Herb - it seems your "suggestion" to your son about his friend suggests
> just as much about your stance(s), and at the same time assumes quite a bit.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> A good class - be it a Lit or writing class - is a place to explore,
> discover, define, redefine, and analyze one's identity as well as that of
> texts and their authors and societies... as long as that process
> is encouraged for *all* students of *all* stances - not just for those who
> need it more because they hold supposed anti-intellectual positions. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Respectfully,****
>
>  ****
>
> John****
>
>
>
>  ****
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:37 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:****
>
> Thanks to all of you for one of the most interesting and thoughtfully
> argued threads we’ve had in a while.****
>
>  ****
>
> I have a question that may be tangential to this topic, or at least a
> narrower focus.  I should say first that while I have taught both ESL
> writing and Freshman writing, I am not a writing teacher, and threads like
> this always leave me with a lot of respect for those who perform these tasks
> and perform them well.****
>
>  ****
>
> When I’ve taught writing, I’ve often been encouraged to avoid topics like
> abortion and creationism vs. evolution because it’s so difficult for student
> writers to separate themselves from the issues and from the social
> consequences of taking a position.  As an example of this, I had dinner with
> my oldest son last night, and we got to talking about a good friend of his
> at work.  She is well educated, well read, and has thoughtful views on a lot
> of topics.  Evolution came up recently in one of their conversations, and
> her response was, “Oh, I don’t believe in evolution.  The evidence for it is
> not very strong.”  My son was surprised at her reaction.  She comes from a
> Southern Baptist background but is no longer connected to that or any other
> denomination, so her reasons for rejecting evolution, and she confirms this,
> are not religious.  I suggested to him that perhaps the reason for her
> position was a matter of social identity.  Her family and the community she
> grew up in are devout and accept the biblical creation story literally.
> Rejecting evolution is a matter of family identity.  She can become a
> backslid Baptist, and that’s lamentable, but for her to accept evolution
> would be to reject her family.****
>
>  ****
>
> In a case like this, a position on evolution or creation or abortion is not
> an intellectual stance; it’s a matter of cultural and social identity, and
> that makes it very hard to think critically about it.  I’ve found in UG
> classes where we deal with dialectology the notion “social class” sometimes
> gets rejected out of hand as Marxist, and no amount of discussion will shake
> that position.  This is also one of those defining stances.****
>
>  ****
>
> Is a writing class the place to get students to question such elements of
> their identity and look at themselves more critically?  How does one go
> about this?****
>
>  ****
>
> Herb****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>
> -- ****
>
> John Chorazy****
>
> English III Honors and Academic****
>
> Pequannock Township High School****
>
> 973.616.6000****
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list" ****
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ****
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
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>
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>



-- 
John Chorazy
English III Honors and Academic
Pequannock Township High School
973.616.6000

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