Herb -
 
I don't think I'm the one taking us back to the 18th century (wasn't Strunk the 19th by the way?) - I'm just responding to what amounted to an encomium to S&W published by Careers.com - essentially saying, "Follow S&W and you will be hired." I'm not saying that S&W is deserving of such (low?) praise - only that the book is still revered, and we need to recognize that fact and deal with it rather than trying to claim that a) it isn't revered and more particularly b) it shouldn't be. I think it's being praised for reasons other than why we're dismissive - in other words, we and the GU are not talking about the same thing when "grammar" is the issue (see Craig's post about usage and syntax).

Geoff Layton
 

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:03:24 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Strunk&White - Alive and Well
To: [log in to unmask]

Geoff,

 

You’re taking us back to the 18th c. when the GU was even more so and was trying more desperately to make it, which meant adopting the manners and language of the upper classes they were aspiring to join.  This created a huge market for self-improvement books, social etiquette, dress, food, and especially grammar.  There was a huge market for such book and no like of aspiring advice writers and publishers.  We see the modern counterpart coming out occasionally now (Eats, Shoots, and Leaves, etc.), and S&W fits into that category.  You’re right that there’s a serious demand out there that we aren’t meeting, and as long as we surrender the field to the grammatical equivalent of S’mores, we won’t meet it.  It will take a special talent and sensitivity to write a popular book on writing that offers relevant and accurate prescriptive advice while telling the truth about language.  Pinker has succeeded at the latter, but he’s not addressing the audience we’re talking about.

 

Herb

 

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 7:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Strunk&White - Alive and Well

 

Craig,
 
Somehow, I find myself familiar with your comments, both analytical and historical (although I'm not sure why the S&W edition that features a forward by White's stepson Roger Angell wasn't more successful - this edition seems to have faded from the summit of the publishing pantheon).
 
But I digress. As is the case with other posts about this issue, you concentrate on the shortcomings of S&W based on your elevated position as a professional grammarian. What I'm trying to do is to call our collective attention to the fact that the great unwashed - specifically our students, their parents (the folks who pay our modest salaries and pensions), and those who presumably were our students but feel they haven't learned much - light on this book like bees to honey.
 
The reason why this is so, I claim, is that the GU (great unwashed) are desperate for somebody to tell them the proper way to speak and write standard English, and instead we deliver our contextualized, academic, conditional talk about grammar and syntax and tell the GU that there could be a "few" sections that might be useful. My observation is that the GU don't care. And that is one reason why, I think, we find ourselves marginalized. We focus on the ills we suffer at the hands of NCTE but don't notice that there is a huge audience out there who agrees with us that grammar should be taught, and yet we do nothing to appeal to these people. Instead, they turn to S&W, Grammar Girl, and other sites that offer even less insight than S&W

Geoff Layton
 

> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:45:52 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: StTo join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"

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