Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I&#39;m not sure what the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, a Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the Keeneshaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don&#39;t seem to object!<br>

<br>John<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

     It&#39;s also possible that &quot;Peninsula&quot; connotes &quot;surrounded on three sides,&quot; so this would be mildly redundant. &quot;The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior&quot; or &quot;is bounded by Lake superior.&quot; Something like that would be cleaner.<br>


    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side effects.<br>


   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.<br>
   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic medicine.<br>
   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a href="mailto:ATEG@To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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========================================================================Date:         Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:12:08 -0700
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
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Craig:
 
 If this were a post on Facebook, I'd hit "like," especially the part about drug companies "discovering new diseases." I did tell the students that I would present the question to the members of ATEG, so that maybe they could come up with answer or consensus. The students were very impressed that a panel of experts would be presented with the usage problem, as the answer was not in the back of their books. They were also surprised that I did not have the answer. (Only "lettered" answers are provided and this was a "numbered" question). As we all know, there is only ever one correct answer when it comes to grammar. (kidding, of course) Thank you for your response and thanks to Bill for his response also!
Best-
Carol

--- On Thu, 9/29/11, Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:


From: Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:50 AM


     It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would be cleaner.
    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side effects.
   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic medicine. 
   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
Craig
    
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>]
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:32 AM
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?

The only explanation we could *come* up with...(sorry!)

--- On Thu, 9/29/11, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:

From: Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:08 AM

Dear List Members:

This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not identify:

The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.

The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have two sides?

Best-

Carol

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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Craig:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;If this&nbsp;were a post on Facebook, I'd hit&nbsp;"like," especially the part about drug companies "discovering new diseases." I did tell the students that I would present the question to the members of ATEG, so that maybe they could come up with answer or consensus. The students&nbsp;were very impressed that a panel of experts would be presented with the usage problem, as the answer was not in the back of their books. They were also surprised that I did not have the answer.&nbsp;(Only&nbsp;"lettered" answers are&nbsp;provided and this was a "numbered" question).&nbsp;As we all know, there is only ever<EM> one</EM> correct answer when it comes to grammar. (kidding, of course)&nbsp;Thank you for your response and thanks to Bill for his response also!</DIV>
<DIV>Best-</DIV>
<DIV>Carol<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/29/11, Hancock, Craig G <I>&lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Hancock, Craig G &lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><BR>Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:50 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would be cleaner.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side effects.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic medicine. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Holistic grammar? It might get attention.<BR>Craig<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>________________________________________<BR>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
 [<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison [<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>]<BR>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:32 AM<BR>To: <A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A><BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR><BR>The only explanation we could *come* up with...(sorry!)<BR><BR>--- On Thu, 9/29/11, Carol Morrison &lt;<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>From: Carol Morrison &lt;<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>"
 ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;<BR>Subject: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A><BR>Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:08 AM<BR><BR>Dear List Members:<BR><BR>This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not identify:<BR><BR>The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.<BR><BR>The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have two sides?<BR><BR>Best-<BR><BR>Carol<BR><BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <A href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html"
 target=_blank>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> and select "Join or leave the list"<BR>Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" target=_blank>http://ateg.org/</A><BR><BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <A href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=_blank>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> and select "Join or leave the list"<BR><BR>Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" target=_blank>http://ateg.org/</A><BR><BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<A href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=_blank>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A><BR>and select "Join or leave the list"<BR><BR>Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" target=_blank>http://ateg.org/</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
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========================================================================Date:         Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:15:26 -0700
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
From:         Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
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Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells "Keeneshaw" incorrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.

--- On Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:


From: John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM


Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure what the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, a Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the Keeneshaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to object!

John


On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:

    It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would be cleaner.
   It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side effects.
  The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
  We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic medicine.
  Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
Craig

________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [ Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells "Keeneshaw" incorrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander <I>&lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: John Dews-Alexander &lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><BR>Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1803643763>Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure what the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, a Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the Keeneshaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to object!<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv1803643763gmail_quote>On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv1803643763gmail_quote>&nbsp; &nbsp; It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would be cleaner.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side effects.<BR>&nbsp; The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.<BR>&nbsp; We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic medicine.<BR>&nbsp; Holistic grammar? It might get attention.<BR>Craig<BR><BR>________________________________________<BR>From:
 Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<A href="http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ATEG@To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland select" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ATEG@To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:&#13;&#10;     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html&#13;&#10;and select "> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/</A></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
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---204894949-1671283779-1317309326=:43041--
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:22:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
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Actually, I have no idea why I spelled it that way. I must have glanced up
at Craig's post when spelling it. Keweenaw peninsula is indeed the one the
text is referencing as reflected on the Keweenaw Chamber of Commerce
website. Sorry for the confusion. I do know of a Keenesaw, Georgia
coincidentally.

John

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:

> Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells "Keeneshaw"
> incorrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>*wrote:
>
>
> From: John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM
>
> Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure what
> the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, a
> Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the Keeneshaw
> Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to object!
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> > wrote:
>
>     It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three
> sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts
> into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that
> would be cleaner.
>    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of
> discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of
> discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to
> the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side
> effects.
>   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
>   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable
> to holistic medicine.
>   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
> Craig
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [ Visit ATEG's web site
> at http://ateg.org/<http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ATEG@To%20join%20or%20leave%20this%20LISTSERV%20list%2C%20please%20visit%20the%20list%27s%20web%20interface%20at:%20%20%20%20%20http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland%20select>
>
>  To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
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>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>



-- 
--
John

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Actually, I have no idea why I spelled it that way. I must have glanced up at Craig&#39;s post when spelling it. Keweenaw peninsula is indeed the one the text is referencing as reflected on the Keweenaw Chamber of Commerce website. Sorry for the confusion. I do know of a Keenesaw, Georgia coincidentally.<br>

<br>John<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Carol Morrison <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit" valign="top">Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells &quot;Keeneshaw&quot; incorrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.<br>

<br>--- On <b>Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander <i>&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px"><br>From: John Dews-Alexander &lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<br>

To: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a><br>Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM<br><br>
<div>Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I&#39;m not sure what the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, a Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the Keeneshaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don&#39;t seem to object!<br>

<br>John<br><br>
<div>On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">    It&#39;s also possible that &quot;Peninsula&quot; connotes &quot;surrounded on three sides,&quot; so this would be mildly redundant. &quot;The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior&quot; or &quot;is bounded by Lake superior.&quot; Something like that would be cleaner.<br>

   It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side effects.<br>

  The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.<br>  We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic medicine.<br>  Holistic grammar? It might get attention.<br>Craig<br><br>________________________________________<br>

From:
 Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a href="http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ATEG@To%20join%20or%20leave%20this%20LISTSERV%20list%2C%20please%20visit%20the%20list%27s%20web%20interface%20at:%20%20%20%20%20http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland%20select" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at http://ateg.org/</a></blockquote>

</div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>
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Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a></p></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>--<br>John<br><br>
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--90e6ba6e8cdcb1991e04ae16161d--
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 29 Sep 2011 12:33:33 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
From:         "Hancock, Craig G" <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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    I seem to remain living proof that error is an inevitable aspect of life. I must have thought of Keeneshaw Georgia and unwittingly led John down the primrose path.
    It seems to me that most real life language choices all reside in the realm of "correctness," but construe what is under focus in different ways. I can imagine a context in which the more redundant form would be preferable; trying to reinforce the definition of "peninsula" for a school aged audience, for example. The author might conclude that "surrounded on three sides" would be a helpful reminder. In a "holistic grammar," we would be sensitive to context. All sentences would be thought of as part of a whole, even if they were only one sentence wholes.

Craig
   
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>] On Behalf Of John Dews-Alexander [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>]
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:22 AM
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?

Actually, I have no idea why I spelled it that way. I must have glanced up at Craig's post when spelling it. Keweenaw peninsula is indeed the one the text is referencing as reflected on the Keweenaw Chamber of Commerce website. Sorry for the confusion. I do know of a Keenesaw, Georgia coincidentally.

John

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells "Keeneshaw" incorrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.

--- On Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

From: John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM

Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure what the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, a Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the Keeneshaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to object!

John

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>> wrote:
    It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would be cleaner.
   It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side effects.
  The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
  We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic medicine.
  Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
Craig

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========================================================================Date:         Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:36:06 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      the Oxford comma
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You might enjoy this
cartoon<http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/>about
the "Oxford comma," the controversial comma that precedes the
conjunction in a series of three or more items: "eat, drink, and be merry"
(as opposed to "eat, drink and be merry"). It is also called the "Harvard
comma" and the "serial comma." The cartoon could provoke discussion in a
college writing class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.

Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book dedication:
"To my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

Dick

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<a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/">You might enjoy this cartoon</a> about the &quot;Oxford comma,&quot; the controversial comma that precedes the conjunction in a series of three or more items: &quot;eat, drink, and be merry&quot; (as opposed to &quot;eat, drink and be merry&quot;). It is also called the &quot;Harvard comma&quot; and the &quot;serial comma.&quot; The cartoon could provoke discussion in a college writing class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.<br>
<br>Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book dedication: &quot;To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.&quot;<br><br>Dick<br>
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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:23:52 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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From:         "R. Michael Medley (ck)" <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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Notice, however, that we can't say that Florida (also a peninsula) is
surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!  We might say

1. "Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of
Mexico."

2. "Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of
Mexico."

3. PROBABLY NOT: "Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the
Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico."

One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of
"displaying" their knowledge of geographical terms.  In fact, in earth
science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of
peninsula as "a body of land bounded by water on three sides."

As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one
of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.  If I wanted
students to reduce wordiness or display economy of language, this is not
the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.  The example,
however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness
of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?


R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
Professor of English
Eastern Mennonite University

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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:41:20 +0000
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         "Myers, Marshall" <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: the Oxford comma
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Dick,

I thought the omission of the comma in a series like these was a journalistic invention, a way to eliminate what could be an unnecessary comma.

So the Oxford comma predates the journalistic practice?

Marshall

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dick Veit
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:36 PM
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Subject: the Oxford comma

You might enjoy this cartoon<http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/> about the "Oxford comma," the controversial comma that precedes the conjunction in a series of three or more items: "eat, drink, and be merry" (as opposed to "eat, drink and be merry"). It is also called the "Harvard comma" and the "serial comma." The cartoon could provoke discussion in a college writing class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.

Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book dedication: "To my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

Dick
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D">Dick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D">I thought the omission of the comma in a series like these was a journalistic invention, a way to eliminate what could be an unnecessary comma.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D">So the Oxford comma predates the journalistic practice?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D">Marshall<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dick Veit<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> the Oxford comma<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/">You might enjoy this cartoon</a> about the &quot;Oxford comma,&quot; the controversial comma that precedes the conjunction in a series of three or more items: &quot;eat, drink, and be merry&quot;
 (as opposed to &quot;eat, drink and be merry&quot;). It is also called the &quot;Harvard comma&quot; and the &quot;serial comma.&quot; The cartoon could provoke discussion in a college writing class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.<br>
<br>
Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book dedication: &quot;To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.&quot;<br>
<br>
Dick<br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:14:37 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
From:         Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: the Oxford comma
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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Marshall,

I am a fan of the serial comma. One of my books is *Writing, Reading, and
Research* (with the comma). It is more common in the US than the UK,
although the *AP Style Book* advises against it. Wikipedia offers a very
nice explanation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma> of the
controversy, including pros and cons.

Dick


On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Myers, Marshall <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:

>  Dick,****
>
> ** **
>
> I thought the omission of the comma in a series like these was a
> journalistic invention, a way to eliminate what could be an unnecessary
> comma.****
>
> ** **
>
> So the Oxford comma predates the journalistic practice?****
>
> ** **
>
> Marshall****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>] *On Behalf Of *Dick Veit
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:36 PM
> *To:* <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> *Subject:* the Oxford comma****
>
> ** **
>
> You might enjoy this cartoon<http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/>about the "Oxford comma," the controversial comma that precedes the
> conjunction in a series of three or more items: "eat, drink, and be merry"
> (as opposed to "eat, drink and be merry"). It is also called the "Harvard
> comma" and the "serial comma." The cartoon could provoke discussion in a
> college writing class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.
>
> Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book
> dedication: "To my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
>
> Dick
>

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Marshall,<br><br>I am a fan of the serial comma. One of my books is <i>Writing, Reading, and Research</i> (with the comma). It is more common in the US than the UK, although the <i>AP Style Book</i> advises against it. Wikipedia offers a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma">very nice explanation</a> of the controversy, including pros and cons.<br>
<br>Dick<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Myers, Marshall <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">






<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dick,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I thought the omission of the comma in a series like these was a journalistic invention, a way to eliminate what could be an unnecessary comma.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">So the Oxford comma predates the journalistic practice?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Marshall<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dick Veit<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> the Oxford comma<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p><div class="im"><a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/" target="_blank">You might enjoy this cartoon</a> about the &quot;Oxford comma,&quot; the controversial comma that precedes the conjunction in a series of three or more items: &quot;eat, drink, and be merry&quot;
 (as opposed to &quot;eat, drink and be merry&quot;). It is also called the &quot;Harvard comma&quot; and the &quot;serial comma.&quot; The cartoon could provoke discussion in a college writing class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.<br>

<br>
Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book dedication: &quot;To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.&quot;<br>
<br>
Dick<br></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:30:53 -0700
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
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It seems logical that "surrounded on three sides" is redundant because a peninsula only has three sides. I'm going to go with the following revision:
 
 
The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.
 
Thanks again for the advice.
 
Carol


--- On Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:


From: R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM


Notice, however, that we can't say that Florida (also a peninsula) is
surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!  We might say

1. "Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of
Mexico."

2. "Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of
Mexico."

3. PROBABLY NOT: "Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the
Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico."

One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of
"displaying" their knowledge of geographical terms.  In fact, in earth
science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of
peninsula as "a body of land bounded by water on three sides."

As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one
of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.  If I wanted
students to reduce wordiness or display economy of language, this is not
the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.  The example,
however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness
of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?


R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
Professor of English
Eastern Mennonite University

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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>It&nbsp;seems logical that "surrounded on three sides" is redundant because a peninsula only has three sides. I'm going to go with the following&nbsp;revision:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">The <SPAN style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #366388 2px dotted; BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; COLOR: ; CURSOR: hand" id=lw_1317396390_0 class=yshortcuts>Keweenaw</SPAN> Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks again for the advice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Carol</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <I>&lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: R. Michael Medley (ck) &lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><BR>Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>Notice, however, that we can't say that Florida (also a peninsula) is<BR>surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!&nbsp; We might say<BR><BR>1. "Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of<BR>Mexico."<BR><BR>2. "Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of<BR>Mexico."<BR><BR>3. PROBABLY NOT: "Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the<BR>Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico."<BR><BR>One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of<BR>"displaying" their knowledge of geographical terms.&nbsp; In fact, in earth<BR>science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of<BR>peninsula as "a body of land bounded by water on three sides."<BR><BR>As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one<BR>of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.&nbsp; If I wanted<BR>students to reduce wordiness or display economy of
 language, this is not<BR>the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.&nbsp; The example,<BR>however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness<BR>of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?<BR><BR><BR>R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.<BR>Professor of English<BR>Eastern Mennonite University<BR><BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<A href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=_blank>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A><BR>and select "Join or leave the list"<BR><BR>Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" target=_blank>http://ateg.org/</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:47:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
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Carol, because this thread was on my mind this morning, I used a similar
revised form of this sentence when I needed a passive sentence to illustrate
topic/comment structure. Even without context, we can infer that the
peninsula is the topic of conversation, and the fact that it is surrounded
by Lake Superior is a comment/new information. The active form ("Lake
Superior surrounds the Keweenaw Peninsula.") casts Lake Superior as the
topic.

My student looked at me strangely. I asked, "Am I making any sense at all?"
My student responded, "Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. But where in the
world did you come up with that sentence?" Ha! I suppose it's not the
average "The cat was chased by the dog" (wow, I just nominalized a whole
sentence!).

John

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:

> It seems logical that "surrounded on three sides" is redundant because a
> peninsula only has three sides. I'm going to go with the following revision:
>
>
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.
>
> Thanks again for the advice.
>
> Carol
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>* wrote:
>
>
> From: R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM
>
> Notice, however, that we can't say that Florida (also a peninsula) is
> surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!  We might say
>
> 1. "Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of
> Mexico."
>
> 2. "Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of
> Mexico."
>
> 3. PROBABLY NOT: "Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the
> Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico."
>
> One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of
> "displaying" their knowledge of geographical terms.  In fact, in earth
> science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of
> peninsula as "a body of land bounded by water on three sides."
>
> As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one
> of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.  If I wanted
> students to reduce wordiness or display economy of language, this is not
> the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.  The example,
> however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness
> of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?
>
>
> R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
> Professor of English
> Eastern Mennonite University
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>



-- 
--
John

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Carol, because this thread was on my mind this morning, I used a similar revised form of this sentence when I needed a passive sentence to illustrate topic/comment structure. Even without context, we can infer that the peninsula is the topic of conversation, and the fact that it is surrounded by Lake Superior is a comment/new information. The active form (&quot;Lake Superior surrounds the Keweenaw Peninsula.&quot;) casts Lake Superior as the topic. <br>

<br>My student looked at me strangely. I asked, &quot;Am I making any sense at all?&quot; My student responded, &quot;Oh yeah, I get what you&#39;re saying. But where in the world did you come up with that sentence?&quot; Ha! I suppose it&#39;s not the average &quot;The cat was chased by the dog&quot; (wow, I just nominalized a whole sentence!).<br>

<br>John<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Carol Morrison <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit" valign="top"><div>It seems logical that &quot;surrounded on three sides&quot; is redundant because a peninsula only has three sides. I&#39;m going to go with the following revision:</div>


<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Courier New">The <span style="border-bottom:#366388 2px dotted;background:none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%;color:">Keweenaw</span> Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.</font></div>
<div><font face="Courier New"></font> </div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks again for the advice.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Carol</div>
<div><br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <i>&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px"><br>From: R. Michael Medley (ck) &lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<br>

To: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a><br>Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM<br><br>
<div>Notice, however, that we can&#39;t say that Florida (also a peninsula) is<br>surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!  We might say<br><br>1. &quot;Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of<br>

Mexico.&quot;<br><br>2. &quot;Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of<br>Mexico.&quot;<br><br>3. PROBABLY NOT: &quot;Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the<br>Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico.&quot;<br>

<br>One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of<br>&quot;displaying&quot; their knowledge of geographical terms.  In fact, in earth<br>science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of<br>

peninsula as &quot;a body of land bounded by water on three sides.&quot;<br><br>As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one<br>of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.  If I wanted<br>

students to reduce wordiness or display economy of
 language, this is not<br>the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.  The example,<br>however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness<br>of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?<br>

<br><br>R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.<br>Professor of English<br>Eastern Mennonite University<br><br>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list&#39;s web interface at:<br>     <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>

and select &quot;Join or leave the list&quot;<br><br>Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>
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Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a></p></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>--<br>John<br><br>
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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:41:06 -0700
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
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Thanks, John. Now I've learned what "nominalizing a sentence" means with your example!

--- On Fri, 9/30/11, John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:


From: John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 11:47 AM


Carol, because this thread was on my mind this morning, I used a similar revised form of this sentence when I needed a passive sentence to illustrate topic/comment structure. Even without context, we can infer that the peninsula is the topic of conversation, and the fact that it is surrounded by Lake Superior is a comment/new information. The active form ("Lake Superior surrounds the Keweenaw Peninsula.") casts Lake Superior as the topic. 

My student looked at me strangely. I asked, "Am I making any sense at all?" My student responded, "Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. But where in the world did you come up with that sentence?" Ha! I suppose it's not the average "The cat was chased by the dog" (wow, I just nominalized a whole sentence!).

John


On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:






It seems logical that "surrounded on three sides" is redundant because a peninsula only has three sides. I'm going to go with the following revision:
 
 
The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.
 
Thanks again for the advice.
 
Carol


--- On Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:


From: R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM


Notice, however, that we can't say that Florida (also a peninsula) is
surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!  We might say

1. "Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of
Mexico."

2. "Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of
Mexico."

3. PROBABLY NOT: "Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the
Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico."

One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of
"displaying" their knowledge of geographical terms.  In fact, in earth
science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of
peninsula as "a body of land bounded by water on three sides."

As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one
of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.  If I wanted
students to reduce wordiness or display economy of language, this is not
the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.  The example,
however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness
of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?


R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
Professor of English
Eastern Mennonite University

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-- 
--
John

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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Thanks, John. Now I've learned what "nominalizing a sentence" means with your example!<BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 9/30/11, John Dews-Alexander <I>&lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: John Dews-Alexander &lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><BR>Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 11:47 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1854044501>Carol, because this thread was on my mind this morning, I used a similar revised form of this sentence when I needed a passive sentence to illustrate topic/comment structure. Even without context, we can infer that the peninsula is the topic of conversation, and the fact that it is surrounded by Lake Superior is a comment/new information. The active form ("Lake Superior surrounds the Keweenaw Peninsula.") casts Lake Superior as the topic. <BR><BR>My student looked at me strangely. I asked, "Am I making any sense at all?" My student responded, "Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. But where in the world did you come up with that sentence?" Ha! I suppose it's not the average "The cat was chased by the dog" (wow, I just nominalized a whole sentence!).<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv1854044501gmail_quote>On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Carol Morrison <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv1854044501gmail_quote>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV>It&nbsp;seems logical that "surrounded on three sides" is redundant because a peninsula only has three sides. I'm going to go with the following&nbsp;revision:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">The <SPAN style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #366388 2px dotted; BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%">Keweenaw</SPAN> Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks again for the advice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Carol</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <I>&lt;<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: R. Michael Medley (ck) &lt;<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A><BR>Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV>Notice, however, that we can't say that Florida (also a peninsula) is<BR>surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!&nbsp; We might say<BR><BR>1. "Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of<BR>Mexico."<BR><BR>2. "Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of<BR>Mexico."<BR><BR>3. PROBABLY NOT: "Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the<BR>Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico."<BR><BR>One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of<BR>"displaying" their knowledge of geographical terms.&nbsp; In fact, in earth<BR>science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of<BR>peninsula as "a body of land bounded by water on three sides."<BR><BR>As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one<BR>of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.&nbsp; If I wanted<BR>students to reduce wordiness or display economy of language, this
 is not<BR>the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.&nbsp; The example,<BR>however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness<BR>of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?<BR><BR><BR>R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.<BR>Professor of English<BR>Eastern Mennonite University<BR><BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<A href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A><BR>and select "Join or leave the list"<BR><BR>Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://ateg.org/</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <A href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> and select
 "Join or leave the list" 
<DIV>Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://ateg.org/</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>--<BR>John<BR><BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" 
<DIV>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:25:38 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         "Peter H. Fries" <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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This wording makes me think it is an island (like Isle Royale).
Peter

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:

> It seems logical that "surrounded on three sides" is redundant because a
> peninsula only has three sides. I'm going to go with the following revision:
>
>
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.
>
> Thanks again for the advice.
>
> Carol
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>* wrote:
>
>
> From: R. Michael Medley (ck) <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM
>
> Notice, however, that we can't say that Florida (also a peninsula) is
> surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!  We might say
>
> 1. "Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of
> Mexico."
>
> 2. "Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of
> Mexico."
>
> 3. PROBABLY NOT: "Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the
> Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico."
>
> One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of
> "displaying" their knowledge of geographical terms.  In fact, in earth
> science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of
> peninsula as "a body of land bounded by water on three sides."
>
> As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one
> of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.  If I wanted
> students to reduce wordiness or display economy of language, this is not
> the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.  The example,
> however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness
> of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?
>
>
> R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
> Professor of English
> Eastern Mennonite University
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>



-- 
Peter H. Fries

Box 310
Mount Pleasant MI 48804

Phone:  989-644-3384
Cell:      989-400-3764

Email:  <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>

Web page:  <http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml<http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml>>
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This wording makes me think it is an island (like Isle Royale).<br>Peter<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Carol Morrison <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit" valign="top"><div>It seems logical that &quot;surrounded on three sides&quot; is redundant because a peninsula only has three sides. I&#39;m going to go with the following revision:</div>

<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Courier New">The <span style="border-bottom:#366388 2px dotted;background:none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%;color:">Keweenaw</span> Peninsula is surrounded by Lake Superior.</font></div>
<div><font face="Courier New"></font> </div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks again for the advice.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Carol</div>
<div><br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 9/30/11, R. Michael Medley (ck) <i>&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px"><br>From: R. Michael Medley (ck) &lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<br>
To: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a><br>Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 8:23 AM<br><br>
<div>Notice, however, that we can&#39;t say that Florida (also a peninsula) is<br>surrounded on three sides by ONE body of water!  We might say<br><br>1. &quot;Florida is a peninsula bounded by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of<br>
Mexico.&quot;<br><br>2. &quot;Florida is bounded on three sides by the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of<br>Mexico.&quot;<br><br>3. PROBABLY NOT: &quot;Florida is a peninsula bounded on three sides by the<br>Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico.&quot;<br>
<br>One wonders if students would be tempted to write number 3 as a way of<br>&quot;displaying&quot; their knowledge of geographical terms.  In fact, in earth<br>science or social studies, they may have learned the definition of<br>
peninsula as &quot;a body of land bounded by water on three sides.&quot;<br><br>As others have pointed out, the issue in the original sentence may be one<br>of redundancy, not an unforgivable sort of redundancy.  If I wanted<br>
students to reduce wordiness or display economy of
 language, this is not<br>the sort of problem I would first turn my attention to.  The example,<br>however, does pose a critical thinking exercise that raises some awareness<br>of economy: why use 4 words when 1 will do?<br>
<br><br>R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.<br>Professor of English<br>Eastern Mennonite University<br><br>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list&#39;s web interface at:<br>     <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>
and select &quot;Join or leave the list&quot;<br><br>Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<p>
Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a></p></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Peter H. Fries<br><br>Box 310 <br>Mount Pleasant MI 48804<br><br>Phone:  989-644-3384<br>
Cell:      989-400-3764 <br><br>Email:  <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a><br>            <br>Web page:  <span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:110%;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"></span><a href="http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml" target="_blank">&lt;http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml</a>&gt;  <span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:110%;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">[among &#39;emeritus faculty&#39;]</span>
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--bcaec5216311f2582804ae2be919--
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:57:58 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         Scott Catledge <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: ATEG Digest - 27 Sep 2011 to 29 Sep 2011 (#2011-186)
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Florida has a peninsula but no isthmus: we think of East Coast, West Coast, 
and Caribbean(?)
when describing peninsula Florida.  We never normally say 'peninsula'; it is 
assumed unless
you state "Panhandle."
Scott
--------------------------------------------------
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Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 12:00 AM
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Subject: ATEG Digest - 27 Sep 2011 to 29 Sep 2011 (#2011-186)

> There are 10 messages totalling 1053 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>  1. Word usage problem? (9)
>  2. the Oxford comma
>
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:08:40 -0700
> From:    Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Word usage problem?
>
> --563393889-1027299409-1317305320=:76247
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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>
> Dear List Members:
>  
> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their 
> g> rammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we 
> co> uld not identify:
>  
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>  
> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be 
> > replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an 
> i> sthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>  
> Best-
>  
> Carol
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> --563393889-1027299409-1317305320=:76247
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>
> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td 
> valign="> top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Dear List Members:</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>This <FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">morning</FONT> in 
> cla> ss, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook 
> tha> t apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not 
> identify:</> DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face="courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif">The Keweenaw 
> Pen> insula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face="tahoma, new york, times, serif">The only explanation we 
> > could some up with is that "three sides" should be replaced with "all 
> sides> " because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have 
> > two sides?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Best-</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Carol</FONT></DIV></td></tr></table>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> --563393889-1027299409-1317305320=:76247--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:31:04 +0000
> From:    "Spruiell, William C" <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> Carol,
>
> The author may be objecting to "surrounded," based on a hyper-literal 
> read> ing ("if it's not encircled, it's not surrounded"). I've seen some similar 
> > examples, although usually in older books (for example, an author 
> objecting> to "audience" for a group of people watching a visual performance).
>
> Bill Spruiell
>
> On Sep 29, 2011, at 10:08 AM, "Carol Morrison" 
> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mail> to:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>> wrote:
>
> Dear List Members:
>
> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their 
> g> rammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we 
> co> uld not identify:
>
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>
> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be 
> > replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an 
> i> sthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>
> Best-
>
> Carol
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> leave> the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:32:47 -0700
> From:    Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> --1460388173-1440420448-1317306767=:23697
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> The only explanation we could *come* up with...(sorry!)
>
> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:
>
>
> From: Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:08 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear List Members:
>  
> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their 
> g> rammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we 
> co> uld not identify:
>  
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>  
> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be 
> > replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an 
> i> sthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>  
> Best-
>  
> CarolTo join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
> inter> face at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> > leave the list" 
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> --1460388173-1440420448-1317306767=:23697
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td 
> valign="> top" style="font: inherit;">The only explanation we could *come* up 
> with.> ..(sorry!)<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/29/11, Carol Morrison 
> <I>&lt;carollynne4> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 
> 5> px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Carol Morrison 
> &lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&g> t;<BR>Subject: Word usage problem?<BR>To: 
> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><BR>Date:> Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:08 AM<BR><BR>
> <DIV id=yiv1958124330>
> <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
> <TBODY>
> <TR>
> <TD vAlign=top>
> <DIV>Dear List Members:</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>This <FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">morning</FONT> in 
> cla> ss, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook 
> tha> t apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not 
> identify:</> DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face="courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif">The Keweenaw 
> Pen> insula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face="tahoma, new york, times, serif">The only explanation we 
> > could some up with is that "three sides" should be replaced with "all 
> sides> " because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have 
> > two sides?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Best-</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Carol</FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>To 
> joi> n or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: 
> ht> tp://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the 
> l> ist" 
> <DIV>Visit ATEG's web site at 
> http://ateg.org/</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td>></tr></table>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
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> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> --1460388173-1440420448-1317306767=:23697--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:50:36 -0400
> From:    "Hancock, Craig G" <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
>     It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three 
> side> s," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into 
> L> ake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would 
> b> e cleaner.
>    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of 
> disc> overing error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of 
> di> scovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to 
> the> companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side 
> effects> .
>   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
>   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable 
> > to holistic medicine. 
>   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
> Craig
>    
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar 
> [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> U] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:32 AM
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> The only explanation we could *come* up with...(sorry!)
>
> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:
>
> From: Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:08 AM
>
> Dear List Members:
>
> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their 
> g> rammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we 
> co> uld not identify:
>
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>
> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be 
> > replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an 
> i> sthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>
> Best-
>
> Carol
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> leave> the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> leave> the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:03:23 -0500
> From:    John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> --20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure 
> what
> the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, a
> Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the Keeneshaw
> Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to object!
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G 
> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:
>
>>     It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three
>> sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts
>> into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that
>> would be cleaner.
>>    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of
>> discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business 
>> of
>> discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to
>> the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side
>> effects.
>>   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
>>   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable
>> to holistic medicine.
>>   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
>> Craig
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [
>> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison [
>> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>]
>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:32 AM
>> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
>> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>>
>> The only explanation we could *come* up with...(sorry!)
>>
>> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
>> Subject: Word usage problem?
>> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
>> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:08 AM
>>
>> Dear List Members:
>>
>> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their
>> grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we
>> could not identify:
>>
>> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>>
>> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should 
>> be
>> replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an
>> isthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>>
>> Best-
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
>> interface
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>> leave the list"
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
>> interface
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>> leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
>> interface
>> at:
>>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> John
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I&#39;m not sure 
> > what the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the 
> wa> y, a Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the 
> Keene> shaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don&#39;t seem 
> to> object!<br>
>
> <br>John<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 
> AM,> Hancock, Craig G <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a 
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]> du"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote 
> class="gmail> _quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc 
> solid;padding-left:> 1ex;">
>
>     It&#39;s also possible that &quot;Peninsula&quot; connotes 
> &quot;s> urrounded on three sides,&quot; so this would be mildly redundant. 
> &quot;Th> e Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior&quot; or &quot;is bounded by 
> > Lake superior.&quot; Something like that would be cleaner.<br>
>
>
>    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of 
> > discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business 
> o> f discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving 
> (to> the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side 
> eff> ects.<br>
>
>
>   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.<br>
>   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something 
> comparabl> e to holistic medicine.<br>
>   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.<br>
> Craig<br>
> <br>
> ________________________________________<br>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a 
> href="mailto:ATEG@> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:12:08 -0700
>From:    Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> --2055901420-1677192483-1317309128=:74821
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Craig:
>  
>  If this were a post on Facebook, I'd hit "like," especially the 
> part> about drug companies "discovering new diseases." I did tell the students 
> t> hat I would present the question to the members of ATEG, so that maybe 
> they> could come up with answer or consensus. The students were very 
> impressed> that a panel of experts would be presented with the usage problem, as the 
> > answer was not in the back of their books. They were also surprised that I 
> > did not have the answer. (Only "lettered" answers are provided and 
> th> is was a "numbered" question). As we all know, there is only ever one 
> cor> rect answer when it comes to grammar. (kidding, of course) Thank you for 
> > your response and thanks to Bill for his response also!
> Best-
> Carol
>
> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:
>
>
> From: Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:50 AM
>
>
>      It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on 
> th> ree sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula 
> jut> s into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like 
> that> would be cleaner.
>     It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of 
> > discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business 
> o> f discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving 
> (to> the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side 
> eff> ects.
>    The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
>    We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something 
> compa> rable to holistic medicine. 
>    Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
> Craig
>     
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar 
> [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> U] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:32 AM
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> The only explanation we could *come* up with...(sorry!)
>
> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:
>
> From: Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:08 AM
>
> Dear List Members:
>
> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their 
> g> rammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we 
> co> uld not identify:
>
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>
> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be 
> > replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an 
> i> sthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>
> Best-
>
> Carol
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> leave> the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> leave> the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --2055901420-1677192483-1317309128=:74821
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td 
> valign="> top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Craig:</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;If this&nbsp;were a post on Facebook, I'd hit&nbsp;"like," 
> espec> ially the part about drug companies "discovering new diseases." I did tell 
> > the students that I would present the question to the members of ATEG, so 
> t> hat maybe they could come up with answer or consensus. The 
> students&nbsp;we> re very impressed that a panel of experts would be presented with the 
> usage> problem, as the answer was not in the back of their books. They were also 
> > surprised that I did not have the answer.&nbsp;(Only&nbsp;"lettered" 
> answer> s are&nbsp;provided and this was a "numbered" question).&nbsp;As we all 
> kno> w, there is only ever<EM> one</EM> correct answer when it comes to 
> grammar.> (kidding, of course)&nbsp;Thank you for your response and thanks to Bill 
> f> or his response also!</DIV>
> <DIV>Best-</DIV>
> <DIV>Carol<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/29/11, Hancock, Craig G 
> <I>&lt;chancock@> ALBANY.EDU&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 
> 5> px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Hancock, Craig G 
> &lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt> ;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: 
> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><BR>Da> te: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:50 AM<BR><BR>
> <DIV class=plainMail>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It's also possible that 
> "Pe> ninsula" connotes "surrounded on three sides," so this would be mildly 
> redu> ndant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by 
> > Lake superior." Something like that would be cleaner.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It 
> s> eems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of discovering 
> > error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of 
> discoverin> g new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the 
> compani> es) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side 
> effects.<BR>&nb> sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The best way to avoid error is to shut up or 
> die.<BR>&nbsp;&> nbsp;&nbsp;We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something 
> com> parable to holistic medicine. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Holistic grammar? It 
> mi> ght get attention.<BR>Craig<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 
> <BR>__________________________> ______________<BR>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [<A 
> href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> MUOHIO.EDU" 
> ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> O.EDU</A>] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison [<A 
> href="http://us.mc1121.mail.ya> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" 
> ymailto="mailto:carollynn> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>]<BR>Sent: Thursday, September 
> 29,> 2011 10:32 AM<BR>To: <A 
> href="http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" 
> ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A><BR>Subject: Re: Word usage 
>>problem?<BR><BR>Th> e only explanation we could *come* up with...(sorry!)<BR><BR>--- On Thu, 
> 9/> 29/11, Carol Morrison &lt;<A 
> href="http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/com> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" 
> ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]">><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>From: Carol Morrison &lt;<A 
>>h> ref="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> OM"
> ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;<B> R>Subject: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <A 
> href="http://us.mc1121.mail.yaho> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" 
> ymailto="mailto:ATEG@LIST> SERV.MUOHIO.EDU"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A><BR>Date: Thursday, September 
> > 29, 2011, 10:08 AM<BR><BR>Dear List Members:<BR><BR>This morning in class, 
> > the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook that 
> ap> parently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not 
> identify:<BR><B> R>The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake 
> Superior.<BR>> <BR>The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" 
> should> be replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and 
> > an isthmus. Or does it have two sides?<BR><BR>Best-<BR><BR>Carol<BR><BR>To 
> > join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:> <A href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html"
> target=_blank>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> and 
> sele> ct "Join or leave the list"<BR>Visit ATEG's web site at <A 
> href="http://a> teg.org/" target=_blank>http://ateg.org/</A><BR><BR>To join or leave 
> this> LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <A 
> href="http:/> /listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" 
> target=_blank>http://listserv.mu> ohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</A> and select "Join or leave the 
> list"<BR><BR>> Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" 
> target=_blank>http:> //ateg.org/</A><BR><BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit 
> th> e list's web interface at:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<A 
> href="http://li> stserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" 
> target=_blank>http://listserv.muohi> o.edu/archives/ateg.html</A><BR>and select "Join or leave the 
> list"<BR><BR>> Visit ATEG's web site at <A href="http://ateg.org/" 
> target=_blank>http:> //ateg.org/</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> --2055901420-1677192483-1317309128=:74821--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:15:26 -0700
> From:    Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> ---204894949-1671283779-1317309326=:43041
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells "Keeneshaw" 
> inc> orrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.
>
> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:
>
>
> From: John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM
>
>
> Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure 
> what> the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, 
> a> Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the 
> Keeneshaw> Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to object!
>
> John
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> 
> wro> te:
>
>     It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three 
> s> ides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts 
> int> o Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that 
> woul> d be cleaner.
>    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of 
> d> iscovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business 
> of> discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to 
> > the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side 
> effe> cts.
>   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
>   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something 
> comparable> to holistic medicine.
>   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
> Craig
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [ Visit ATEG's web site 
> > at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> ---204894949-1671283779-1317309326=:43041
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td 
> valign="> top" style="font: inherit;">Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the 
> textbo> ok also spells "Keeneshaw" incorrectly according to the way you and Craig 
> h> ave spelled it.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander 
> <I>&lt;j> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 
> 5> px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: John Dews-Alexander 
> &lt;jed.alexander@GMAIL> .COM&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: 
> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> U<BR>Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM<BR><BR>
> <DIV id=yiv1803643763>Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice 
> (al> though I'm not sure what the justification would be if the sentence is in 
> i> solation)? By the way, a Google search of the sentence shows several 
> sites,> including the Keeneshaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The 
> nativ> es don't seem to object!<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>
> <DIV class=yiv1803643763gmail_quote>On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, 
> Hanc> ock, Craig G <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A 
> href="http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel=nofollow target=_blank 
> ymailt> o="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;</SPAN> 
> wrote:<> BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 
> 0.8ex> ; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv1803643763gmail_quote>&nbsp; &nbsp; It's 
> al> so possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three sides," so this 
> > would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake 
> Superior> " or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would be 
> cleaner.<B> R>&nbsp; &nbsp;It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the 
> busin> ess of discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the 
> bus> iness of discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self 
> serv> ing (to the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious 
> s> ide effects.<BR>&nbsp; The best way to avoid error is to shut up or 
> die.<BR>>&nbsp; We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something 
>>compar> able to holistic medicine.<BR>&nbsp; Holistic grammar? It might get 
> attenti> on.<BR>Craig<BR><BR>________________________________________<BR>From:
> Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<A 
> href="http://us.mc1121.> mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ATEG@To join or leave this LISTSERV list, 
> pl> ease visit the list's web interface at: 
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/arch> ives/ateg.htmland select" rel=nofollow target=_blank 
> ymailto="mailto:> ATEG@To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
> inter> face at:&#13;&#10; 
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html&#13;&#> 10;and select "> Visit ATEG's web site at 
> http://ateg.org/</A></BLOCKQUOTE>> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> ---204894949-1671283779-1317309326=:43041--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:22:50 -0500
> From:    John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> --90e6ba6e8cdcb1991e04ae16161d
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Actually, I have no idea why I spelled it that way. I must have glanced up
> at Craig's post when spelling it. Keweenaw peninsula is indeed the one the
> text is referencing as reflected on the Keweenaw Chamber of Commerce
> website. Sorry for the confusion. I do know of a Keenesaw, Georgia
> coincidentally.
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Carol Morrison 
> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:
>
>> Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells "Keeneshaw"
>> incorrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander 
>> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>*wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: John Dews-Alexander <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
>> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
>> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM
>>
>> Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure 
>> what
>> the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, 
>> a
>> Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the 
>> Keeneshaw
>> Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to 
>> object!
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G 
>> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>     It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three
>> sides," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts
>> into Lake Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that
>> would be cleaner.
>>    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of
>> discovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business 
>> of
>> discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to
>> the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side
>> effects.
>>   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
>>   We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable
>> to holistic medicine.
>>   Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
>> Craig
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [ Visit ATEG's web 
>> site
>> at 
>> http://ateg.org/<http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ATEG@To%20join%20or%20leave%20this%20LISTSERV%20list%2C%20please%20visit%20the%20list%27s%20web%20interface%20at:%20%20%20%20%20http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland%20select>
>>
>>  To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
>> interface
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>> leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> John
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --90e6ba6e8cdcb1991e04ae16161d
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Actually, I have no idea why I spelled it that way. I must have glanced up 
> > at Craig&#39;s post when spelling it. Keweenaw peninsula is indeed the one 
> > the text is referencing as reflected on the Keweenaw Chamber of Commerce 
> we> bsite. Sorry for the confusion. I do know of a Keenesaw, Georgia 
> coincident> ally.<br>
>
> <br>John<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:15 
> AM> , Carol Morrison <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a 
> href="mailto:carollynne41@yahoo> .com"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote 
> class="> gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc 
> solid;padding-> left:1ex;">
>
> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td 
> styl> e="font:inherit" valign="top">Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the 
> te> xtbook also spells &quot;Keeneshaw&quot; incorrectly according to the way 
> y> ou and Craig have spelled it.<br>
>
> <br>--- On <b>Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander <i>&lt;<a 
> href="mailto:je> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" 
> target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</i>></b> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote style="border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px 
> solid;padding-left:5px;> margin-left:5px"><br>From: John Dews-Alexander &lt;<a 
> href="mailto:jed.al> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" 
> target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;<br>Sub> ject: Re: Word usage problem?<br>
>
> To: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" 
> target="_blank">ATEG@LIST> SERV.MUOHIO.EDU</a><br>Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 
> AM<br><br>
> <div>Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I&#39;m not 
> > sure what the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By 
> t> he way, a Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the 
> > Keeneshaw Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don&#39;t 
> se> em to object!<br>
>
> <br>John<br><br>
> <div>On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G <span 
> dir="ltr">&l> t;<a 
> href="http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chancock@alban> y.edu" rel="nofollow" 
> target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span>> wrote:<br>
>
>
> <blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 
> 0.8ex;pa> dding-left:1ex">    It&#39;s also possible that &quot;Peninsula&quot; 
> c> onnotes &quot;surrounded on three sides,&quot; so this would be mildly 
> redu> ndant. &quot;The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into Lake Superior&quot; or 
> &quot> ;is bounded by Lake superior.&quot; Something like that would be 
> cleaner.<b> r>
>
>    It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of 
> d> iscovering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business 
> of> discovering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to 
> > the companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side 
> effe> cts.<br>
>
>   The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.<br>  We should 
> decl> are a moratorium on error and invent something comparable to holistic 
> medic> ine.<br>  Holistic grammar? It might get 
> attention.<br>Craig<br><br>_____> ___________________________________<br>
>
> From:
> Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [<a 
> href="http://us.mc1121.> mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ATEG@To%20join%20or%20leave%20this%20LISTSER> V%20list%2C%20please%20visit%20the%20list%27s%20web%20interface%20at:%20%20> %20%20%20http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland%20select" 
> rel="> nofollow" target="_blank"> Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at 
> http://ateg.org/<> /a></blockquote>
>
> </div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list&#39;s web 
> interf> ace at:
>     <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" 
> target="_b> lank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a>
> and select &quot;Join or leave the list&quot;
> <p>
> Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" 
> target="_blank">>http://ateg.org/</a></p></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>--  
>><b> r>--<br>John<br><br>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --90e6ba6e8cdcb1991e04ae16161d--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 12:33:33 -0400
> From:    "Hancock, Craig G" <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
>    I seem to remain living proof that error is an inevitable aspect of 
> lif> e. I must have thought of Keeneshaw Georgia and unwittingly led John down 
> t> he primrose path.
>    It seems to me that most real life language choices all reside in the 
> r> ealm of "correctness," but construe what is under focus in different ways. 
> > I can imagine a context in which the more redundant form would be 
> preferabl> e; trying to reinforce the definition of "peninsula" for a school aged 
> audi> ence, for example. The author might conclude that "surrounded on three 
> side> s" would be a helpful reminder. In a "holistic grammar," we would be 
> sensit> ive to context. All sentences would be thought of as part of a whole, even 
> > if they were only one sentence wholes.
>
> Craig
>   
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar 
> [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> U] On Behalf Of John Dews-Alexander [<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:22 AM
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
>
> Actually, I have no idea why I spelled it that way. I must have glanced up 
> > at Craig's post when spelling it. Keweenaw peninsula is indeed the one the 
> > text is referencing as reflected on the Keweenaw Chamber of Commerce 
> websit> e. Sorry for the confusion. I do know of a Keenesaw, Georgia 
> coincidentally> .
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Carol Morrison 
> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><ma> ilto:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>> wrote:
> Thanks for checking, John. Oh, and the textbook also spells "Keeneshaw" 
> inc> orrectly according to the way you and Craig have spelled it.
>
> --- On Thu, 9/29/11, John Dews-Alexander 
> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mailto:je> <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>> wrote:
>
> From: John Dews-Alexander 
> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mailto:jed.alexander@GMA> IL.COM>>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2011, 11:03 AM
>
> Perhaps the author objects to the passive voice (although I'm not sure 
> what> the justification would be if the sentence is in isolation)? By the way, 
> a> Google search of the sentence shows several sites, including the 
> Keeneshaw> Chamber of Commerce, using that wording. The natives don't seem to object!
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Hancock, Craig G 
> <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><http> :<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>> wrote:
>    It's also possible that "Peninsula" connotes "surrounded on three 
> sides> ," so this would be mildly redundant. "The Keeneshaw Peninsula juts into 
> La> ke Superior" or "is bounded by Lake superior." Something like that would 
> be> cleaner.
>   It seems to me more and more that handbooks are in the business of 
> disco> vering error in the same way that drug companies are in the business of 
> dis> covering new diseases. At a certain point, it becomes self serving (to the 
> > companies) and dangerous to the public, complete with serious side 
> effects.
>  The best way to avoid error is to shut up or die.
>  We should declare a moratorium on error and invent something comparable 
> t> o holistic medicine.
>  Holistic grammar? It might get attention.
> Craig
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [ Visit ATEG's web site 
> > at 
> http://ateg.org/<http://us.mc1121.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ATEG@To> %20join%20or%20leave%20this%20LISTSERV%20list%2C%20please%20visit%20the%20l> ist%27s%20web%20interface%20at:%20%20%20%20%20http://listserv.muohio.edu/ar> chives/ateg.htmland%20select>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> leave> the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> --
> --
> John
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or 
> leave> the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:36:06 -0400
> From:    Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> Subject: the Oxford comma
>
> --0016e6d647bc2116fc04ae18c85e
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> You might enjoy this
> cartoon<http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/>about
> the "Oxford comma," the controversial comma that precedes the
> conjunction in a series of three or more items: "eat, drink, and be merry"
> (as opposed to "eat, drink and be merry"). It is also called the "Harvard
> comma" and the "serial comma." The cartoon could provoke discussion in a
> college writing class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.
>
> Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book 
> dedication:
> "To my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
>
> Dick
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --0016e6d647bc2116fc04ae18c85e
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/oxford-comma-cartoon/">You 
> migh> t enjoy this cartoon</a> about the &quot;Oxford comma,&quot; the 
> controvers> ial comma that precedes the conjunction in a series of three or more 
> items:> &quot;eat, drink, and be merry&quot; (as opposed to &quot;eat, drink and 
> b> e merry&quot;). It is also called the &quot;Harvard comma&quot; and the 
> &qu> ot;serial comma.&quot; The cartoon could provoke discussion in a college 
> wr> iting class--perhaps a bit racy for high school.<br>
> <br>Similar is the famously ambiguous (and probably apocryphal) book 
> dedica> tion: &quot;To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.&quot;<br><br>Dick<br>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface 
> at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --0016e6d647bc2116fc04ae18c85e--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ATEG Digest - 27 Sep 2011 to 29 Sep 2011 (#2011-186)
> ***********************************************************
> 

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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:58:48 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
From:         Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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This raises many questions:

How many sides can something be surrounded by?
Can we say, "Panama is surrounded by oceans on two sides"?
Can we say, "L.A. is surrounded by the Pacific on one side"?
Do we assume things have four sides? If so, why?
If a peninsula is bordered by water on three of four sides, is it surrounded
at all?

Here's a somewhat related question: If a squirrel is clinging to the side of
a large oak tree, and if you walk all the way around the tree trying to see
the squirrel, who keeps moving to stay on the opposite side of the tree from
you, then you have walked around the tree, but have you walked around the
squirrel?

Dick





On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:

> Dear List Members:
>
> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their
> grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we
> could not identify:
>
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>
> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be
> replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an
> isthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>
> Best-
>
> Carol
>

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--0016367f9df84e6c3e04ae2ee495
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This raises many questions:<br><br>How many sides can something be surrounded by? <br>Can we say, &quot;Panama is surrounded by oceans on two sides&quot;? <br>Can we say, &quot;L.A. is surrounded by the Pacific on one side&quot;?<br>
Do we assume things have four sides? If so, why?<br>If a peninsula is bordered by water on three of four sides, is it surrounded at all?<br><br>Here&#39;s a somewhat related question: If a squirrel is clinging to the side of a large oak tree, and if you walk all the way around the tree trying to see the squirrel, who keeps moving to stay on the opposite side of the tree from you, then you have walked around the tree, but have you walked around the squirrel?<br>
<br>Dick<br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Carol Morrison <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit" valign="top"><div>Dear List Members:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">morning</font> in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not identify:</div>

<div> </div>
<div><font face="courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif">The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.</font></div>
<div><font face="Courier New"></font> </div>
<div><font face="tahoma, new york, times, serif">The only explanation we could some up with is that &quot;three sides&quot; should be replaced with &quot;all sides&quot; because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have two sides?</font></div>

<div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Tahoma">Best-</font></div>
<div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Tahoma">Carol</font><br></div></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div>
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--0016367f9df84e6c3e04ae2ee495--
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:52:42 -0700
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
From:         Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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According to Answers.com or Wiki answers:
 
"A piece of land that is surrounded by water on only three sides and connected to a main land mass on one side is called a peninsula. Florida would be a good example."
 
And from www.enchantedlearning.com:
 
"A peninsula is a body of land that is surrounded by water on three sides."
 
From dictionary.com:
 
Peninsula-an area of land almost completely surrounded by water except for an isthmus connecting it with the mainland.
 
Dick, you raise some very interesting questions. I do think that I can picture a peninsula more accurately by describing it as "surrounded on three sides" by water, otherwise, "surrounded by" does seem to imply that water would completely encircle the land mass making it an island. 
 
Since the "problem" sentence occurred in the textbook under word "usage" problems, I would concur that the word being misused is surrounded, which is what I think I remember Bill saying.
 
Carol



--- On Fri, 9/30/11, Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:


From: Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 4:58 PM


This raises many questions:

How many sides can something be surrounded by? 
Can we say, "Panama is surrounded by oceans on two sides"? 
Can we say, "L.A. is surrounded by the Pacific on one side"?
Do we assume things have four sides? If so, why?
If a peninsula is bordered by water on three of four sides, is it surrounded at all?

Here's a somewhat related question: If a squirrel is clinging to the side of a large oak tree, and if you walk all the way around the tree trying to see the squirrel, who keeps moving to stay on the opposite side of the tree from you, then you have walked around the tree, but have you walked around the squirrel?

Dick






On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:






Dear List Members:
 
This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not identify:
 
The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
 
The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have two sides?
 
Best-
 
Carol
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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>According to Answers.com or Wiki answers:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet>"A piece of land that is surrounded by water on only three sides and connected to a main land mass on one side is called a peninsula. Florida would be a good example."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet>And from <A href="http://www.enchantedlearning.com">www.enchantedlearning.com</A>:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet>"A peninsula is a body of land that is surrounded by water on three sides."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet>From dictionary.com:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet><SPAN id=hotword><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">Peninsula-an</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">area</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">of</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">land</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">almost</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">completely</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,85,187); CURSOR: pointer" id=hotword name="hotword">surrounded</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">by</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">water</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">except</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">for</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">an</SPAN> <SPAN
 id=hotword name="hotword">isthmus</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">connecting</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">it</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">with</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword name="hotword">the</SPAN> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" id=hotword name="hotword">mainland.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet><SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" name="hotword"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet><SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" name="hotword">Dick, you raise some very interesting questions. I do think that I can picture a peninsula more accurately by describing it as "surrounded on three sides" by water, otherwise, "surrounded by" does seem to imply that water would completely encircle the land mass making it an island.&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet><SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" name="hotword"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet><SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" name="hotword">Since the "problem" sentence occurred in the textbook under word "usage" problems, I would concur that the word being misused is <EM>surrounded</EM>, which is what I think I remember Bill saying.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet><SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" name="hotword"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=snippet><SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); CURSOR: default" name="hotword">Carol</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 9/30/11, Dick Veit <I>&lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Dick Veit &lt;<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<BR>To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><BR>Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 4:58 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1212574372>This raises many questions:<BR><BR>How many sides can something be surrounded by? <BR>Can we say, "Panama is surrounded by oceans on two sides"? <BR>Can we say, "L.A. is surrounded by the Pacific on one side"?<BR>Do we assume things have four sides? If so, why?<BR>If a peninsula is bordered by water on three of four sides, is it surrounded at all?<BR><BR>Here's a somewhat related question: If a squirrel is clinging to the side of a large oak tree, and if you walk all the way around the tree trying to see the squirrel, who keeps moving to stay on the opposite side of the tree from you, then you have walked around the tree, but have you walked around the squirrel?<BR><BR>Dick<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv1212574372gmail_quote>On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Carol Morrison <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv1212574372gmail_quote>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV>Dear List Members:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This <FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">morning</FONT> in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not identify:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif">The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="tahoma, new york, times, serif">The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have two sides?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Best-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Carol</FONT><BR></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" 
<DIV>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
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<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
---204894949-1375991542-1317419562=:56685--
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:31:36 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
              <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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Questions come to mind about different definitions of "surround."  By one
definition (used in the first two sources you quote), a peninsula can be
"surrounded by water on three sides." In your third source, a peninsula is "
*almost *completely surrounded" by water. The Free Dictionary gives these
definitions:

sur·round  (s-round)
*tr.v.* *sur·round·ed*, *sur·round·ing*, *sur·rounds*
*1. * To extend on all sides of simultaneously; encircle.
*2. * To enclose or confine on all sides so as to bar escape or outside
communication.

This raises the question: can a peninsula be said to be "surrounded" by
water since it is isn't enclosed on every side? I've had great class
discussions on semantic questions like this one.

Dick


On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>wrote:

> According to Answers.com or Wiki answers:
>
> "A piece of land that is surrounded by water on only three sides and
> connected to a main land mass on one side is called a peninsula. Florida
> would be a good example."
>
> And from www.enchantedlearning.com:
>
> "A peninsula is a body of land that is surrounded by water on three sides."
>
> From dictionary.com:
>
> Peninsula-an area of land almost completely surrounded by water except for
> an isthmus connecting it with the mainland.
>
> Dick, you raise some very interesting questions. I do think that I can
> picture a peninsula more accurately by describing it as "surrounded on three
> sides" by water, otherwise, "surrounded by" does seem to imply that water
> would completely encircle the land mass making it an island.
>
> Since the "problem" sentence occurred in the textbook under word "usage"
> problems, I would concur that the word being misused is *surrounded*,
> which is what I think I remember Bill saying.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/30/11, Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Dick Veit <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
>
> Subject: Re: Word usage problem?
> To: <a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
> Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 4:58 PM
>
> This raises many questions:
>
> How many sides can something be surrounded by?
> Can we say, "Panama is surrounded by oceans on two sides"?
> Can we say, "L.A. is surrounded by the Pacific on one side"?
> Do we assume things have four sides? If so, why?
> If a peninsula is bordered by water on three of four sides, is it
> surrounded at all?
>
> Here's a somewhat related question: If a squirrel is clinging to the side
> of a large oak tree, and if you walk all the way around the tree trying to
> see the squirrel, who keeps moving to stay on the opposite side of the tree
> from you, then you have walked around the tree, but have you walked around
> the squirrel?
>
> Dick
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Carol Morrison <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a><http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
> > wrote:
>
>   Dear List Members:
>
> This morning in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their
> grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we
> could not identify:
>
> The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.
>
> The only explanation we could some up with is that "three sides" should be
> replaced with "all sides" because a peninsula only has three sides and an
> isthmus. Or does it have two sides?
>
> Best-
>
> Carol
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

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Questions come to mind about different definitions of &quot;surround.&quot;  By one definition (used in the first two sources you quote), a peninsula can be &quot;surrounded by water on three sides.&quot; In your third source, a peninsula is &quot;<i>almost </i>completely surrounded&quot; by water. The Free Dictionary gives these definitions:<br>

<br><span>sur·round</span>  <span>(s<img src="http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif" align="absbottom">-round<img src="http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif" align="absbottom">)</span><div>
<i>tr.v.</i>  <b>sur·round·ed</b>, <b>sur·round·ing</b>, <b>sur·rounds</b> <div><b>1. </b> To extend on all sides of simultaneously; encircle.</div><div><b>2. </b> To enclose or confine on all sides so as to bar escape or outside communication.<br>

<br>This raises the question: can a peninsula be said to be &quot;surrounded&quot; by water since it is isn&#39;t enclosed on every side? I&#39;ve had great class discussions on semantic questions like this one.<br>
<br>Dick<br></div></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Carol Morrison <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit" valign="top"><div>According to Answers.com or Wiki answers:</div>
<div> </div>
<div><span>&quot;A piece of land that is surrounded by water on only three sides and connected to a main land mass on one side is called a peninsula. Florida would be a good example.&quot;</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>And from <a href="http://www.enchantedlearning.com" target="_blank">www.enchantedlearning.com</a>:</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>&quot;A peninsula is a body of land that is surrounded by water on three sides.&quot;</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>From <a href="http://dictionary.com" target="_blank">dictionary.com</a>:</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">Peninsula-an</span> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">area</span> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">of</span> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">land</span> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">almost</span> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">completely</span> <span style="color:rgb(0,85,187)" name="hotword">surrounded</span> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">by</span> <span name="hotword">water</span> <span name="hotword">except</span> <span name="hotword">for</span> <span name="hotword">an</span> <span name="hotword">isthmus</span> <span name="hotword">connecting</span> <span name="hotword">it</span> <span name="hotword">with</span> <span name="hotword">the</span> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">mainland.</span></span></span></div>


<div><span><span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword"></span></span></span> </div>
<div><span><span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">Dick, you raise some very interesting questions. I do think that I can picture a peninsula more accurately by describing it as &quot;surrounded on three sides&quot; by water, otherwise, &quot;surrounded by&quot; does seem to imply that water would completely encircle the land mass making it an island. </span></span></span></div>


<div><span><span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword"></span></span></span> </div>
<div><span><span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">Since the &quot;problem&quot; sentence occurred in the textbook under word &quot;usage&quot; problems, I would concur that the word being misused is <i>surrounded</i>, which is what I think I remember Bill saying.</span></span></span></div>


<div><span><span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword"></span></span></span> </div>
<div><span><span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)" name="hotword">Carol</span></span></span></div>
<div><br><br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 9/30/11, Dick Veit <i>&lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px"><br>From: Dick Veit &lt;<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;<div><br>Subject: Re: Word usage problem?<br>

To: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a><br></div>Date: Friday, September 30, 2011, 4:58 PM<br><br>
<div><div><div></div><div>This raises many questions:<br><br>How many sides can something be surrounded by? <br>Can we say, &quot;Panama is surrounded by oceans on two sides&quot;? <br>Can we say, &quot;L.A. is surrounded by the Pacific on one side&quot;?<br>

Do we assume things have four sides? If so, why?<br>If a peninsula is bordered by water on three of four sides, is it surrounded at all?<br><br>Here&#39;s a somewhat related question: If a squirrel is clinging to the side of a large oak tree, and if you walk all the way around the tree trying to see the squirrel, who keeps moving to stay on the opposite side of the tree from you, then you have walked around the tree, but have you walked around the squirrel?<br>

<br>Dick<br><br><br><br><br><br>
<div>On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Carol Morrison <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="http:<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote style="border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Dear List Members:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">morning</font> in class, the students and I came across a sentence in their grammar handbook that apparently contains a misusage of some sort that we could not identify:</div>


<div> </div>
<div><font face="courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif">The Keweenaw Peninsula is surrounded on three sides by Lake Superior.</font></div>
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<div><font face="tahoma, new york, times, serif">The only explanation we could some up with is that &quot;three sides&quot; should be replaced with &quot;all sides&quot; because a peninsula only has three sides and an isthmus. Or does it have two sides?</font></div>


<div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Tahoma">Best-</font></div>
<div><font face="Tahoma"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Tahoma">Carol</font><br></div></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div></div></div>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list&#39;s web interface at: <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select &quot;Join or leave the list&quot; 
<div><div>Visit ATEG&#39;s web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><div><div></div><div>
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========================================================================Date:         Fri, 30 Sep 2011 20:58:57 -0400
Reply-To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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Sender:       Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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From:         Don Stewart <<a href="/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?LOGON=A3%3Dind1109%26L%3DATEG%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D2741570%26B%3D--20cf3042719c2220b304ae15d1b1%26T%3Dtext%252Fhtml%3B%2520charset%3DISO-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Word usage problem?
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Dick,

At least you've got that squirrel surrounded.

Don Stewart
www.writeforcollege.com
www.writing123.com

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Dick,<br><br>At least you&#39;ve got that squirrel surrounded.<br><br clear="all">Don Stewart<br><a href="http://www.writeforcollege.com" target="_blank">www.writeforcollege.com</a><br><a href="http://www.writing123.com" target="_blank">www.writing123.com</a><div>

<br></div><br>
<br>
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