You might try the listserve archives - just go the the ATEG website. Geoff Layton Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:32:48 -0400 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Subjunctive -- calling Dick Veit To: [log in to unmask] I'm sorry, Michael, but I don't have a copy of that message. And perhaps it was someone else who wrote the message Edith recalls. I agree with Martha and Edith that "was" in those situations is becoming accepted, but it doesn't reflect my usage (and probably not theirs). I agree with your fellow Kenyon alum (it wasn't my daughter, Kenyon class of '00) that it should have been "if Kenyon weren't special to you," but I don't agree that the subjunctive should always be used following "if." Subjunctive mood is generally used for counter-factuals. Declarative mood is used for factual events or events of unknown factuality, including those that follow "if." So I'd write: He would be acting differently if he were sober. He can't remember if he was at the party. Dick On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Michael Kischner <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I want to write a gentle respond to someone who wrote to my college alumni magazine in great dismay over this sentence in its last issue: "You wouldn't be reading this magazine if Kenyon wasn't special to you." She asserts, "The word 'if' always takes the subjunctive.. . . I would expect no less than proper grammar in our alumni magazine!" Does somebody have a good feel for where things stand on this now? In the latest edition of Martha Kolln's book that I have (7th; 2006), Martha says that "was" is "fairly common" in certain "If" sentences --"If Joe was here, he'd agree with me" -- but that, in writing,"the subjunctive were is the standard form." Edith Wollin says pretty much the same thing in the latest edition of the textbook she and I co-authored. I'd like to know how others are seeing it. Edith tells me that Dick Veit sent a very interesting message to this list about the subjunctive. I missed it. Dick, if you see this and can find your email, would you mind re-sending? Thanks! To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/