I concur with S&W; I reserve the "popular" use (e.g., "Like, man, do you dig that?) to situations when I am being humorous or pandering to an immature audience. Scott Catledge -------------------------------------------------- From: "ATEG automatic digest system" <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:01 AM To: <[log in to unmask]> Subject: ATEG Digest - 22 Nov 2011 to 23 Nov 2011 (#2011-206) > There are 3 messages totalling 556 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Like/as (3) > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:39:14 +0000 > From: "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Like/as > > Craig and Others, > > Thanks for the info. > > "Like" now is being used as a quotative: He's like (said) "Who are you?" I > = > think it replaced "go." > =20 > I haven't figured out some of its other uses: "He's like mad at me." > > Any thoughts on that? > > Marshall > -----Original Message----- > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask] > OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:45 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Like/as > > Craig: > > Was S&W really allowing single nouns after 'like', but not any multiword > ph= > rases? Or were they adopting the use of 'phrase' to refer only to PPs, > VPs,= > etc.? If the former, that would be bizarrely wrong, but S&W are bizarrely > = > wrong just often enough to make that reading plausible. > > --- Bill Spruiell > > > > > On Nov 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, "Hancock, Craig G" > <[log in to unmask]<mailto= > :[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Marshall, > I am old enough to have been schooled in the old rules and to remember > = > the controversy over the Winston ad. > I have an original edition elements of Style ( 1959) which lays it out > = > this way: "Like governs nouns and pronouns; before phrases and clauses the > = > equivalent word is as. " You would say "As in the old days" rather than > "li= > ke in the old days" and "as a cigarette should" rather than "like a > cigaret= > te should." > S & W also describes the controversy and comes down on the side of the > = > old rule. In essence, they are saying being current or in current usage > doe= > sn't mean it's right. "If every word or device that achieved currency were > = > immediately authenticated, simply on the grounds of popularity, the > languag= > e would be as chaotic as a ball game with no foul lines." This rather > stran= > ge (but telling) analogy is intact in my 1972 edition. > > Craig > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask] > OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 9:04 PM > To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > [log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@= > LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU> > Subject: Re: Like/as > > Does anybody still use "like" only as a verb (I like lemonade) or as a > prep= > osition (She looks like him), but not as a conjunction (You look like you > c= > ould use a rest vs. You look as though you could use a rest)? > > "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should. It may be bad grammar, but > it= > 's great taste," a cigarette slogan out of the late 50's . > > Marshall > > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask] > OHIO.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Dick Veit > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:10 PM > To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > [log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@= > LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU> > Subject: Re: Like/as > > Unlike Bruce, I have absolutely no problem with "like" as a preposition, > or= > ally or in writing. > > Bruce, if you object to "like," do you also object to "unlike," as in my > op= > ening sentence? > > Dick > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 21, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Bruce Despain > <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>bdes= > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > John, > You'll have to figure out the collective part, but I have my own opinion. > = > For me the sentences belongs in a written work and the preferred phrase is > = > introduced with "as with." The preposition "like" has taken on a distinct > = > colloquial flavor, especially in some young people's dialects, where is > usu= > ally serves as a sentence modifier. I would avoid it in written work. > Bruce > > --- <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > [log in to unmask]<mailto= > :[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > From: John Chorazy > <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>john.chorazy@PEQUAN= > NOCK.ORG<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > [log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@= > LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU> > Subject: Like/as > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:10 -0500 > Good afternoon to all. I'd appreciate your collective comments on the > foll= > owing: > > "As with (or) Like some other great works, the enduring horror tale > Franken= > stein was first published anonymously; its author, Mary Shelly, wrote the > n= > ovel when she was just nineteen years old." > > As or like here, and why? > > Thank you, > > John > > > -- > John Chorazy > English III Honors and Academic > Pequannock Township High School > 973.616.6000 > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > = > at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> > http://listserv.muohio.= > edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > = > at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> > http://listserv.muohio.= > edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > = > at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> > http://listserv.muohio.= > edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > = > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:44:12 +0000 > From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Like/as > > It's, like, a hedging or distancing marker. The speaker isn't, like, > totally asserting that the proposition is true, but rather that it, like, > seems pretty darn truish. S/he isn't, like, imposing his/her reality onto > yours; s/he's just sayin'. > > --- Bill Spruiell > > > > On 11/23/11 3:39 PM, "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >>Craig and Others, >> >>Thanks for the info. >> >>"Like" now is being used as a quotative: He's like (said) "Who are you?" >>I think it replaced "go." >>=20 >>I haven't figured out some of its other uses: "He's like mad at me." >> >>Any thoughts on that? >> >>Marshall >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar >>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C >>Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:45 AM >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: Like/as >> >>Craig: >> >>Was S&W really allowing single nouns after 'like', but not any multiword >>phrases? Or were they adopting the use of 'phrase' to refer only to PPs, >>VPs, etc.? If the former, that would be bizarrely wrong, but S&W are >>bizarrely wrong just often enough to make that reading plausible. >> >>--- Bill Spruiell >> >> >> >> >>On Nov 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, "Hancock, Craig G" >><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> >>Marshall, >> I am old enough to have been schooled in the old rules and to >>remember the controversy over the Winston ad. >> I have an original edition elements of Style ( 1959) which lays it >>out this way: "Like governs nouns and pronouns; before phrases and >>clauses the equivalent word is as. " You would say "As in the old days" >>rather than "like in the old days" and "as a cigarette should" rather >>than "like a cigarette should." >> S & W also describes the controversy and comes down on the side of >>the old rule. In essence, they are saying being current or in current >>usage doesn't mean it's right. "If every word or device that achieved >>currency were immediately authenticated, simply on the grounds of >>popularity, the language would be as chaotic as a ball game with no foul >>lines." This rather strange (but telling) analogy is intact in my 1972 >>edition. >> >>Craig >> >>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar >>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall >>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 9:04 PM >>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>Subject: Re: Like/as >> >>Does anybody still use "like" only as a verb (I like lemonade) or as a >>preposition (She looks like him), but not as a conjunction (You look like >>you could use a rest vs. You look as though you could use a rest)? >> >>"Winston tastes good like a cigarette should. It may be bad grammar, but >>it's great taste," a cigarette slogan out of the late 50's . >> >>Marshall >> >> >>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar >>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]] >>> On Behalf Of Dick Veit >>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:10 PM >>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>Subject: Re: Like/as >> >>Unlike Bruce, I have absolutely no problem with "like" as a preposition, >>orally or in writing. >> >>Bruce, if you object to "like," do you also object to "unlike," as in my >>opening sentence? >> >>Dick >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On Nov 21, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Bruce Despain >><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> >> wrote: >>John, >>You'll have to figure out the collective part, but I have my own opinion. >> For me the sentences belongs in a written work and the preferred phrase >>is introduced with "as with." The preposition "like" has taken on a >>distinct colloquial flavor, especially in some young people's dialects, >>where is usually serves as a sentence modifier. I would avoid it in >>written work. >>Bruce >> >>--- <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>From: John Chorazy >><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:jo >>[log in to unmask]>> >>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>Subject: Like/as >>Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:10 -0500 >>Good afternoon to all. I'd appreciate your collective comments on the >>following: >> >>"As with (or) Like some other great works, the enduring horror tale >>Frankenstein was first published anonymously; its author, Mary Shelly, >>wrote the novel when she was just nineteen years old." >> >>As or like here, and why? >> >>Thank you, >> >>John >> >> >>-- >>John Chorazy >>English III Honors and Academic >>Pequannock Township High School >>973.616.6000 >> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >>interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> >>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave >>the list" >>Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/ >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >>interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> >>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave >>the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/ >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >>interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> >>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave >>the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/ >> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >>interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>and select "Join or leave the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >>interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>and select "Join or leave the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:48:52 -0500 > From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Like/as > > --e89a8f3bab95ee631904b26f8f5d > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Then there's the beat lyric sung by the great Ella Fitzgerald: > > > I'm out doin' the usual places > And I'm livin' it, like young > Then I dig me this face of all faces > He's the craziest, like young > > He drinks coffee at Cafe Espresso > He reads Kerouac, like young > He goes where all the angry young men go > Recites poetry, like young > > We start blowin' the pad around lovin' > And we're homin' it, like now > We spin records on cloud number seven > And he's reachin' me, like wow > > I'm all unstrung 'cause, man > He's got me feelin' like young > If he were to brush me and go > I'm starting to wear my hair again > Like a square again > > I keep gettin' the kookiest notion > I think maybe it's like love > I've been feelin' a crazy emotion > I think, baby, it's like love > > Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville > And we're makin' it like young > Love soft as April snow > Love warm as candle glow > Love, love is easy to go > > I'm all unstrung 'cause, man > He's got me feelin' like young > Without him I'm no good at all > Without him I'm less than a decimal > > I keep gettin' the kookiest notion > I think maybe it's like love > I've been feelin' a crazy emotion > I think, baby, it's like love > > Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville or Wowsville > We're makin' it, makin' it like, like, like young > > Writers: PREVIN > > Lyrics =A9 Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC > > > **<http://www.leoslyrics.com/login.php?gotourl=3DL2VsbGEtZml0emdlcmFsZC9saW= > tlLXlvdW5nLWx5cmljcy8*> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Spruiell, William C > <[log in to unmask]>wr= > ote: > >> It's, like, a hedging or distancing marker. The speaker isn't, like, >> totally asserting that the proposition is true, but rather that it, like, >> seems pretty darn truish. S/he isn't, like, imposing his/her reality onto >> yours; s/he's just sayin'. >> >> --- Bill Spruiell >> >> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --e89a8f3bab95ee631904b26f8f5d > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <p style=3D"position: relative; left: 0px;" class=3D"song" > id=3D"songLyrics= > Div_dex">Then there's the beat lyric sung by the great Ella > Fitzgerald:= > <br></p><p style=3D"position: relative; left: 0px;" > class=3D"song"><br></p>= > <p style=3D"position: relative; left: 0px;" class=3D"song"> > I'm out doin' the usual places > <br> > And I'm livin' it, like young > <br> > Then I dig me this face of all faces > <br> > He's the craziest, like young > <br> > > <br> > He drinks coffee at Cafe Espresso > <br> > He reads Kerouac, like young > <br> > He goes where all the angry young men go > <br> > Recites poetry, like young > <br> > > <br> > We start blowin' the pad around lovin' > <br> > And we're homin' it, like now > <br> > We spin records on cloud number seven > <br> > And he's reachin' me, like wow > <br> > > <br> > I'm all unstrung 'cause, man > <br> > He's got me feelin' like young > <br> > If he were to brush me and go > <br> > I'm starting to wear my hair again > <br> > Like a square again > <br> > > <br> > I keep gettin' the kookiest notion > <br> > I think maybe it's like love > <br> > I've been feelin' a crazy emotion > <br> > I think, baby, it's like love > <br> > > <br> > Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville > <br> > And we're makin' it like young > <br> > Love soft as April snow > <br> > Love warm as candle glow > <br> > Love, love is easy to go > <br> > > <br> > I'm all unstrung 'cause, man > <br> > He's got me feelin' like young > <br> > Without him I'm no good at all > <br> > Without him I'm less than a decimal > <br>=A0 > <br> > I keep gettin' the kookiest notion > <br> > I think maybe it's like love > <br> > I've been feelin' a crazy emotion > <br> > I think, baby, it's like love > <br> > > <br> > Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville or Wowsville > <br> > We're makin' it, makin' it like, like, like young<br> > </p><div class=3D"submit-comment-box-1-content"> > <p>Writers: PREVIN</p> > =09 > <p>Lyrics =A9 Sony/ATV Music Publishi= > ng LLC</p><p><br></p><strong></strong><a rel=3D"nofollow" > href=3D"http://ww= > w.leoslyrics.com/login.php?gotourl=3DL2VsbGEtZml0emdlcmFsZC9saWtlLXlvdW5nLW= > x5cmljcy8*" title=3D"Login"></a></div> > <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Spruiell, > Willi= > am C <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">sprui1wc@c= > mich.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= > =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> > It's, like, a hedging or distancing marker. The speaker isn't, > like= > ,<br> > totally asserting that the proposition is true, but rather that it, > like,<b= > r> > seems pretty darn truish. S/he isn't, like, imposing his/her reality > on= > to<br> > yours; s/he's just sayin'.<br> > <br> > --- Bill Spruiell<br> > <div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br></div></div></blockquote></div> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > <p> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --e89a8f3bab95ee631904b26f8f5d-- > > ------------------------------ > > End of ATEG Digest - 22 Nov 2011 to 23 Nov 2011 (#2011-206) > *********************************************************** > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/