Scott, I stand corrected. "Exciting" was first a verb form, then a participle, and then an adjective, correct? Marshall -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Catledge Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 10:33 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 29 Oct 2011 to 8 Nov 2011 (#2011-194) I would not say that "exciting was an adjective made out of a verb but a present participle used as an adjective--a concept that I taught early on. When I stated that any word could be used as a noun, I was challenged by a student who said, "'The' can't be used as a noun." I then asked her to diagram her statement. When she did, the class saw that "The" was a subject. I then asked if "The" was used as a pronoun: they replied almost in unison, "No, it's used as a noun. The young lady just shook her head and said, "'The' can't be no noun!" I stated that she was quite right that 'the' could not be a noun; it could, however, be used as a noun--as we clearly saw from the diagram. I never did convince her and, on the final exam, a similar response took her exam grade from a C to a D=--lowering her final average from a C to a C-. She complained; however, we had few, if any, options at that time on determining final grades. Scott Catledge -------------------------------------------------- From: "ATEG automatic digest system" <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:03 AM To: <[log in to unmask]> Subject: ATEG Digest - 29 Oct 2011 to 8 Nov 2011 (#2011-194) > There are 5 messages totalling 620 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. grammar question--verb v. participle (5) > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:59:33 -0800 > From: Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: grammar question--verb v. participle > > --1938299484-559104384-1320775173=:20532 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Dear List, > > How would you describe "exciting" in the following sentence? > > <What had been exciting gave her a feeling of dazed helplessness.> > > How would you explain your reasoning to 7th graders? > > > Thanks, > > Scott Woods > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --1938299484-559104384-1320775173=:20532 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > > <html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; > font-family:times new roman, new york, times, > serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Dear List,</div><div><br></div><div>How would > you describe "exciting" in the following > sentence?</div><div><br></div><div><What had been exciting gave her a > feeling of dazed helplessness.></div><div><br></div><div>How would you > explain your reasoning to 7th > graders?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Scott > Woods<br></div></div></body></html> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > <p> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > --1938299484-559104384-1320775173=:20532-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 19:49:32 +0000 > From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: grammar question--verb v. participle > > Scott -- > > I'd say it was an adjective, of the type that's made out of a verb (if the > = > class has talked in some way about participles, with or without the term > ac= > tually being used). You can put "very" in front of it easily, which > support= > s the idea that it's an adjective or adverb, and you can rule out adverb > fa= > irly easily too (it's not movable, you should be able to say "excitingly" > t= > here if it were an adverb, etc.). If the class hasn't talked about verb > for= > ms being used as adjectives, maybe this would be a good place to bring it > u= > p. You can nudge the word verbwards by adding something interpretable only > = > as an object: "What had been exciting everyone now just made them > confused"= > (but then the "very" test bombs). > > If you're talking about grammatical role, it's a subject complement inside > = > a wh-clause acting as subject=85 but I was guessing that seventh grade > prob= > ably hasn't focused much on nominal clauses and embedding. > > --- Bill Spruiell > > From: Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > Reply-To: ATEG English Grammar > <[log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@LISTSE= > RV.MUOHIO.EDU>> > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:59:33 -0800 > To: ATEG English Grammar > <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask] > HIO.EDU>> > Subject: grammar question--verb v. participle > > Dear List, > > How would you describe "exciting" in the following sentence? > > <What had been exciting gave her a feeling of dazed helplessness.> > > How would you explain your reasoning to 7th graders? > > Thanks, > > Scott Woods > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > = > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave= > the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 19:54:59 +0000 > From: "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: grammar question--verb v. participle > > Scott, > > I concur with Bill. > > "Interesting" and "boring" are also seen as "exciting" is. > > Marshall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask] > OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:50 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: grammar question--verb v. participle > > Scott -- > > I'd say it was an adjective, of the type that's made out of a verb (if the > = > class has talked in some way about participles, with or without the term > ac= > tually being used). You can put "very" in front of it easily, which > support= > s the idea that it's an adjective or adverb, and you can rule out adverb > fa= > irly easily too (it's not movable, you should be able to say "excitingly" > t= > here if it were an adverb, etc.). If the class hasn't talked about verb > for= > ms being used as adjectives, maybe this would be a good place to bring it > u= > p. You can nudge the word verbwards by adding something interpretable only > = > as an object: "What had been exciting everyone now just made them > confused"= > (but then the "very" test bombs). > > If you're talking about grammatical role, it's a subject complement inside > = > a wh-clause acting as subject... but I was guessing that seventh grade > prob= > ably hasn't focused much on nominal clauses and embedding. > > --- Bill Spruiell > > From: Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > Reply-To: ATEG English Grammar > <[log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@LISTSE= > RV.MUOHIO.EDU>> > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:59:33 -0800 > To: ATEG English Grammar > <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask] > HIO.EDU>> > Subject: grammar question--verb v. participle > > Dear List, > > How would you describe "exciting" in the following sentence? > > <What had been exciting gave her a feeling of dazed helplessness.> > > How would you explain your reasoning to 7th graders? > > Thanks, > > Scott Woods > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > = > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave= > the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > = > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:54:40 -0500 > From: MARTHA KOLLN <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: grammar question--verb v. participle > > --=-5Be6YINi0jrOI42vD6hO > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Another adjective test besides "very": "more exciting. > > Martha > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 02:54 PM, "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: >> > Scott, >> >>I concur with Bill. >> >>"Interesting" and "boring" are also seen as >>"exciting" is. >> >>Marshall >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar >>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C >>Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:50 PM >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: grammar question--verb v. participle >> >>Scott -- >> >>I'd say it was an adjective, of the type that's made out of a verb (if the >>class has talked in some way about participles, with or without the term >>actually being used). You can put "very" in front of it easily, >>which supports the idea that it's an adjective or adverb, and you can rule >>out >>adverb fairly easily too (it's not movable, you should be able to say >>"excitingly" there if it were an adverb, etc.). If the class >>hasn't talked about verb forms being used as adjectives, maybe this would >>be a >>good place to bring it up. You can nudge the word verbwards by adding >>something >>interpretable only as an object: "What had been exciting everyone now just >>made them confused" (but then the "very" test bombs). >> >>If you're talking about grammatical role, it's a subject complement inside >>a >>wh-clause acting as subject... but I was guessing that seventh grade >>probably >>hasn't focused much on nominal clauses and embedding. >> >>--- Bill Spruiell >> >>From: Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>Reply-To: ATEG English Grammar >><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:59:33 -0800 >>To: ATEG English Grammar >><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>Subject: grammar question--verb v. participle >> >>Dear List, >> >>How would you describe "exciting" in the following sentence? >> >><What had been exciting gave her a feeling of dazed helplessness.> >> >>How would you explain your reasoning to 7th graders? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Scott Woods >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface >>at: >>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave >>the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface >>at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>and select "Join or leave the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface >>at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>and select "Join or leave the list" >> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> >> > > Martha Kolln > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --=-5Be6YINi0jrOI42vD6hO > Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 > > <div>Another adjective test besides "very": "more > exciting.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Martha<br><br>On Tue, > Nov 8, > 2011 02:54 PM, <b>"Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]></b> > wrote:<br><blockquote id="quoted_response" style="padding-left: 3px; > padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 3px; margin-right: 0px; border-left: 1px > solid > #000;"> > <pre> > Scott, > > I concur with Bill. > > "Interesting" and "boring" are also seen as > "exciting" is. > > Marshall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:50 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: grammar question--verb v. participle > > Scott -- > > I'd say it was an adjective, of the type that's made out of a verb (if the > class has talked in some way about participles, with or without the term > actually being used). You can put "very" in front of it easily, > which supports the idea that it's an adjective or adverb, and you can rule > out > adverb fairly easily too (it's not movable, you should be able to say > "excitingly" there if it were an adverb, etc.). If the class > hasn't talked about verb forms being used as adjectives, maybe this would > be a > good place to bring it up. You can nudge the word verbwards by adding > something > interpretable only as an object: "What had been exciting everyone now just > made them confused" (but then the "very" test bombs). > > If you're talking about grammatical role, it's a subject complement inside > a > wh-clause acting as subject... but I was guessing that seventh grade > probably > hasn't focused much on nominal clauses and embedding. > > --- Bill Spruiell > > From: Scott Woods > <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: ATEG English Grammar > <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:59:33 -0800 > To: ATEG English Grammar > <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Subject: grammar question--verb v. participle > > Dear List, > > How would you describe "exciting" in the following sentence? > > <What had been exciting gave her a feeling of dazed helplessness.> > > How would you explain your reasoning to 7th graders? > > Thanks, > > Scott Woods > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave > the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > </pre></blockquote>Martha Kolln<br><br><br></div> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > <p> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --=-5Be6YINi0jrOI42vD6hO-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 21:57:12 +0000 > From: "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: grammar question--verb v. participle > > --_000_E6446B90F8DEEC4FB965A2BCC9E704CC18A37D6Bfsmail1facultys_ > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > > QVRFRyBNZW1iZXJzLA0KDQpObyB0YWtlcnMgb24gcmV2aWV3aW5nIHRoZSBNY1dob3J0ZXIgYWQg > T2Frc+KAmSBib29rcz8NCg0KTWFyc2hhbGwNCkJvb2sgUmV2aWV3IEVkaXRvcg0KDQpGcm9tOiBB > c3NlbWJseSBmb3IgdGhlIFRlYWNoaW5nIG9mIEVuZ2xpc2ggR3JhbW1hciBbbWFpbHRvOkFURUdA > TElTVFNFUlYuTVVPSElPLkVEVV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIE1BUlRIQSBLT0xMTg0KU2VudDogVHVl > c2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMDgsIDIwMTEgMzo1NSBQTQ0KVG86IEFURUdATElTVFNFUlYuTVVPSElP > LkVEVQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IGdyYW1tYXIgcXVlc3Rpb24tLXZlcmIgdi4gcGFydGljaXBsZQ0K > DQpBbm90aGVyIGFkamVjdGl2ZSB0ZXN0IGJlc2lkZXMgInZlcnkiOiAgIm1vcmUgZXhjaXRpbmcu > DQoNCg0KTWFydGhhDQoNCk9uIFR1ZSwgTm92IDgsIDIwMTEgMDI6NTQgUE0sICJNeWVycywgTWFy > c2hhbGwiIDxNYXJzaGFsbC5NeWVyc0BFS1UuRURVPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KDQoNCg0KU2NvdHQsDQoN > 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--_000_E6446B90F8DEEC4FB965A2BCC9E704CC18A37D6Bfsmail1facultys_-- > > ------------------------------ > > End of ATEG Digest - 29 Oct 2011 to 8 Nov 2011 (#2011-194) > ********************************************************** > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/