On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

There's another issue in this post that hasn't been addressed, and that's the use of "whom" - "from whom he was never apart." My sense of the language today is that "whom" is quickly disappearing from use, and that most native speakers today would say (at least in conversation), "who he was almost ever apart from." Now to the Fussy Grammarian, this construction has problems on two counts - first, of course, is the use of who instead of the "correct" whom; and second is the use of the preposition from at the end of the sentence. In spite of those "errors," I would maintain that this "incorrect" sentence is actually better than the original, as it refers to "advisors" more quickly and clearly than the "correct" version ("by his advisors who . . ." instead of "by his advisors from whom . . . "), and therefore should also be used in standard written English.

Geoff Layton

Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:02:45 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: subject of a clause vs object of a preposition
To: [log in to unmask]

Help me with this again, please. I’ve raised this kind of issue before, but I can’t remember your answers. Sorry. I would appreciate your thoughts again. Thank you.

From a statement regarding King Henry VIII from the Wikipedia article “English Reformation”:
“. . .he allowed himself to be influenced by his advisors from whom he was never apart, by night or day; he was thus susceptible to whoever had his ear.”

Am I to understand “whoever” is correct because the verb “had” needs a subject, put better, the clause needs a subject, and that that requirement is more important than the preposition “to” requiring an object?

This is the way I guide myself, but I don’t think I should explain it this way to my ESL students.

Martha G.

PS Hope the conference was enjoyable and successful.